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I need to know what rifle I have so I can buy the correct magazines for it.
I've bought several mags at gun shows and none have been correct. Can your advisory board help? Here's pictures of all the stamps I can find on the rifle.
Thanks for any help.
Bill
You may have struck gold without realizing it. You have a sporterised No4 sniper's rifle made by BSA Shirley (near Birmingham) in the UK in 1943. The holes in the receiver side wall are where the body pads (mount bases) for the scope mount & scope were positioned. Clearly it has been got at, but depending on how much sporterising work has been done to it, it could well be worth rebuilding to its original sniper trim.
And to answer your question as asked, it is a No4 Lee Enfield rifle.
If you can post more pictures of it you'll get a lot more info on the feasibility of restoring it.
Roger has nailed it, as usual. I will expand upon what he said. It is either a Lee-Enfield Number 4 Mark I (T) -- also written as No.4 MK.I (T) -- or possibly a No.4 MK. I (T. LESS TELESCOPE). The difference is whether or not the rifle was ever fitted with a telecscophe. In your case, look for a "T" stamped on the flat left side of the body. As well, look for an "S" possibly stamped on the right side on a small flat square section just below the bolt head.
The magazine for your rifle is the magazine for the Lee-Enfield No. 4 and No. 5 ("Jungle Carbine") rifles. It has the spine ridge on the back go only halfway down. They sell for about $40 to 75 U.S. depending on the seller and the condition.
The magazine for the Lee-Enfield No. 1 rifle (also known as SMLE in its earlier days) has a spine running the full length of the back, and is NOT correct for your rifle.
Your rifle's serial number appears to be AB5194, correct?
I second Roger's suggestion of encouraging you to post more photos.
Attachment 78871Attachment 78872
Here's the important part, the shape and the locking lug. The first pic, the mag on the left. Single locking lug. The right one is for the earlier #1 Mk3. Second pic shows the simple lug pics of a Savage made mag.
Lucky you getting a sleeper the guys are right on do your homework on the T series and depending on which way you go with the restoration depends on how much you will spend there are guys here that will help you with advice and are definitely the go to people for this advice done through the forum so the rest of us get to share in the journey.
The T series or Sniper T's were a select line of rifles that when manufactured showed better than average groupings and were put aside to be built up into sniper rifles at various firms selected by the MoD yours as stated is designated a M 47 which is BSA which also has a connection with Holland & Holland to build these rifles up S51 being stamped on the underside of the Butt just behind where the wrist section ends.
The standards for fitting of the scope bracket pads was quite exacting I seem to remember the tolerances were extremely tight 1/1000th" yours may not have had the bracket & scope fitted therefore is classed as a scopeless T which whilst not fetching as much as a correct T they still command a good price in proper trim.
So look up the threads on the site about them learn a bit of the history then make your decision about whether to resurrect it.
From what I can see it has the synthetic stocks front & rear that's a bit of bugger, the forum likes pictures so those with the experience & knowledge can guide you as to part of its history if possible through its serial No. they will be along shortly I should imagine.
The magazine may require a little bit of fitting up there are those that can guide you on how to that, also there may be a thread somewhere in the archives on how to do it.
What did you pay for the rifle and how is the bore.
Also here is a little green book written by one of the members here that will give you a good insight into the T's he has had a thing or two to do with them over the period of a few decades well worth buying a copy......
Thanks to all. I finally got around to taking pictures of the rifle in it's current state. Unfortunately, when I got the rifle, the barrel had already been cropped to 21 1/2". The person who started this "destruction" also brazed on a front sight that appeared to be canted 6 degrees to the right. The comments by Cinders as to accuracy are dead on! The first time I put a few rounds through it. it was spot on at 100 yds! Maybe my eyes are canted 6 degrees to the right also! After many years, I decided to make this rifle my hog hunter and took it in to have the front sight removed and have the barrel re-blued. Then I removed the rear peep/yardage sight and mounted the monster scope. Wild boar can be extremely aggressive and I'm not too fast on my feet so I wanted to have a lot of space between us! Thanks to all for the info. I really wish I had known more about this rifle prior to "butchering" it! I really appreciate the info on the magazine as there's a gun show thius week end and maybe at last I can get some extra mags for it! Hope every one had a great Christmas and a Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year! Bill
I think with the rear sight ears now removed, she is best left as a hunting rifle.
I think Brit plumber is right. Sadly, the rear sight ears have been ground off, making a full restoration to military trim not exactly impossible, but very difficult & probably quite expensive unless you are or know a tame engineer & welder! However, there's still life in the old dog - it sounds like she is still serving you well. I hope you get the mag sorted out shortly.
So we have learned the fate of one T anyway, so you will not require that little green booklet on them......as mentioned it would be a very expensive task to resurrect the rifle best use it for deer and plinking
Thanks all, I appreciate the help and I really feel bad that I was the cause of the destruction of what I suspect is a great piece of military history. When I bought the rifle ($50 in 1977), most but not all, of the damage had been done. Knowing then, what I know now, I might have been able to do something but with the barrel having been shortened, I believe, there would not be a whole lot I could do to resurrect this piece of history. I think I still have the rear sight that I removed. I did not do any grinding though. It was attached with screws and I think it's still in a box somewhere. I'll look for it and post the results here. Thanks again guys, you're the best!
This is where we get into this situation of using a bare receiver and buying several thousand worth of parts to make it "Original"... It's been changed to a sporter and there's little return. What's the point?Quote:
Originally Posted by cprteacher
In 15 or 20 years people will probably see a rifle like this as a viable project. It can never be 100% original again but it is the real deal. Even a pieced together (but genuine) 4T isn't cheap now and are only going up.
edit: the point of rebuilding a rifle like this is two fold. a) you have the satisfaction of resurrecting a rare rifle and b) by piecing it together (and spreading out the expense) it allows people with less income to still (eventually) have the thing they want.
Ultimately it comes down to the choice of the owner, together with the amount of sporterising that has been carried out on the rifle, & the owner's access to the equipment to effect the necessary repairs to get it back to correct military specification. As items such as this become more scarce over time people will probably be prepared to go to greater lengths to resurrect them, as henry says. As some of you may remember I rebuilt a SMLE sniper's rifle three or four years ago; I started with a genuine but stripped EFD 1916 Mk3* receiver that I obtained from a riflesmith's junk box in the early '90's. It took me till about 2003 to turn up the scope & rings, & I only managed to source a set of original mount bases (Aldis/Holland & Holland) immediately before I embarked on the rebuilding project. Now, many may say that my rifle is a 'bitzer', which it is, but all of the bits are genuine 1915/16 manufacture off real sniper's rifles. Add to this the chance of getting one of these in any condition whatsoever is only marginally above a negative quantity, then I think that rebuilding is very worth while, as well as (for me), very satisfying - so long as, come the day when one parts with it, one is honest about its provenance. Just my take on it.......
Roger, was that one of the receivers from our mutual friend in Cheltenham?
Hi Mick. No, not that one - the SMLE receiver came from our mutual friends located at Bisley Camp. However, I did buy four 4T receivers from our Cheltenham friend at about the same time. I built one up into a 'faux' L42 which is on my FAC as my 'main' fullbore rifle. I had more than a little advice on how best to effect the conversion process from another mutual friend here on the forum; the resulting rifle shoots far better than I will ever be able to - it's a real tack driver!