I'm at a gun show right now and a vendee has 180gr PPU .303 British on the table for $20 a box... I don't have a Lee-Enfield yet but am looking hard. How well does the 180gr PPU shoot out of the rifle? What about the Remington 174gr?
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I'm at a gun show right now and a vendee has 180gr PPU .303 British on the table for $20 a box... I don't have a Lee-Enfield yet but am looking hard. How well does the 180gr PPU shoot out of the rifle? What about the Remington 174gr?
Best get the Lee enfield first then buy a small batch (20 ~ 40 rounds) of different types and see what the rifle likes.......... shooting factory gets dear as hell best reload with Rem brass, 174gn SMK, Fed 210, or CCI BR 2, AR 2209 is a good powder but allot of the guys use AR 2208 or Varget to the US market it is a bit sharper than AR 2209 (US = 4350)
Otherwise your buying the cart before the horse what happens if the horse dislikes the cart!!!
Reloading is eventually the plan but I'd like to be able to try the rifle out when I get it...
Are you saying the the 174gr Remington is the better option over the PPU generally speaking?
So, buy a couple of boxes for later.
From personal experience the PPU 174 commercial is quite good (excellent brass to reload as well) but in reality if you want to make it an accurate shooter then reloading is the best and cheapest option. I run mine with AR2208 (Varget in the US) and Woodleigh (australian) 174 PP SN projectiles. Have also found the LEE Dies to be excellent for the 303 British.
Dick
That was my first thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie48
Both the Privy and Remington brass are good if you plan to reload.
Prvi Partizan brass may actually be my favourite brass to reload in multiple calibres, including .303 British. The commercial ammunition shoots well too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aussie48
The PPU factory ammo shoots well in both my .303's; however there are extra gains to be had with reloading. The PPU brass is excellent for reloading; the Remington brass is OK, but my last lot of Remington brass seems thinner and not as good as all the previous supplies.
Not sure why that is. I have not tried the Remington factory loads. I just buy their cases for reloading.
I think the Remington-UMC .303 is best because it was loaded to Mk.7z spec with a flat base 174 grain projectile. The PPU is loaded to Mk.8z spec with a boat tail. The unfortunate part is the Remington ammo which is available at distributors now is around $21 a box, dealer cost. I think the imported S&B and PPU can be had for a tad more than half that price making the Remington too expensive for new ball ammo in the eyes of many.
Wonder if he's still standing there...at the gun show?Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76
Well, I told him to buy my rifle but the exspurts on the other forums said it was too expensive. At any rate; if he gets one elsewhere and it's in need of TLC, he should know he can send it here for repair if necessary.
Can't imagine...so he's without one. So ammo doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I thought the Mk 8z ammo was for Vickers and Lewis Guns and not intended for use in rifles?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I have a lot of PRVI brass that I have reloaded several times with excellent results. I do not FL resize just push the shoulder back a tiny bit.
I am using various powders but have had very good results with Varget. You can check out this link for tips. The data may not be suitable for your rifle but that site will give you some ideas on loads.
Hodgdon Reloading | Home
---------- Post added at 03:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:53 PM ----------
That boggles my mind, your Lee Enfields even with the conversion to Canadian dollars are very well priced, especially to some of the overpriced crap I have seen for sale online up here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
But what do I know??
Brian Exspurts = Ex - is an unknown factor and Spurt - is a drip under pressure?
Well Brian tried to assist the person but like all things if they are going to listen to others and buy a cheapie then they will probably be enlisting Brian's services to have it tuned up I would go with a known factor rather than off a table at a gun show, we do not have gunshows in our state but do dealers take excellent firearms to sell at these fairs or just the hard movers that collect dust in their shop. Just a question I am asking chaps not an inference or morality check.
I can't speak for the US, but the gunshows I've seen in Queensland appear to have a mixture of rifles the dealer actually wants to sell at a fair price, and stuff I suspect they're "showing off" - because anyone with $5000 for a rare or collectible gun isn't likely to buy it at a gunshow without having done some serious research first.
Sorry Colonel. How do interstate collectors find out what is available. One way is to travel around the fairs and auctions looking for those collectables which most likely are Estate sales. Have been involved both ways selling on behalf of and buying for myself and on behalf of others. Some people know their stuff and or know the person buying for them knows his to the tune of 20k+ both ways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield
I think we can both accept that's not a usual situation, though. I've believe I've mentioned before one of my concerns with military surplus rifles in Australia is there's basically two markets - the crazy high end one where everyone knows everyone and so the stuff in those circles rarely, if ever comes up on the open market; and the "regular" one which is full of increasingly expensive rifles as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
I've definitely seen stuff at gun shows that I honestly think the vendor is just showing off, as well as stuff that's obviously for a premium market I'm not part of.
[QUOTE=Colonel Enfield;385443]I think we can both accept that's not a usual situation, though. I've believe I've mentioned before one of my concerns with military surplus rifles in Australia is there's basically two markets
I don't move in the any circle, I move where what I want is likely to be. There used to be a circuit until the state police in some states made it too hard to comply where interstate dealers could travel with, acquire on the way and on sell. You have your ideas on where the market price should be that's fine just don't complain when you cant buy at the price you want to others are getting a bargain in their eyes.
When those people have $20k to drop on a single gun I'm going to complain if it means they're pushing the prices up on everything else and for everyone else because the deep-pocketed ones think they're getting a "bargain" spending $1000+ for an unremarkable WWII Lithgow SMLE Mk III*Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
Go and find a 1935 Lithgow in firing condition then a 1935 armourers cut away. If that is to hard find a set dated the same year marked to each of the Military Districts. Maybe with luck find the rifle either side of the shield/MA change over. Then there is the South Australian Police rifles consecutively numbered. The list goes on and on for themes to collect for. The supply is shrinking the price is climbing the longer you wait the more you will pay. I am from the era of GTs, GTHOs wishing I had a couple of them in the shed from new at the then price looking at todays prices. What value do you put on a Whitney marked one, the first and last one made at Lithgow, the deepest pocket at auction always wins. I have both won and lost and will continue to do so until I have what I want or die in the attempt.
Like me going cheap a MkIII brought some 9 years ago for $100 yep was an ad on our club room wall rang the chap is it in good condition Oh? surely yes it is, Is it all there yep it surely is and the barrel condition Oh its very nice actually.
Well it turned up the thing was minus = No sling, No Mag, No safety well not a real issue for those except it was a 1916 5MD (how fortuitous I thought) the only real down side was it cost nearly 6 times the cost of the rifle to get it back to my OCD correct with period & era Lithgow parts (I did put a Lithgow star stamped I think transitional mag on it also it has the early type star on the follower.) right down to the Lithgow 5MD 07 bayonet & 5MD scabb both purchased separately and finally a black (not blackened) 1916 Wrights sling. So even bargains can cost you plenty.
The "H" barrel was replaced in 1937 for some reason as it has no FTR markings on it save for that weird stamp the circle & ? on the reinforce which no one here has been able to decipher yet.
I think we're talking at cross purposes here - I'm not talking about specifically collectible rifles so much as generic .303s. We're trying to get younger people interested in service rifle shooting but many of them can't afford to buy an SMLE. They don't care about the fact it's from a rare year or has markings from three different countries on it - they want a reliable SMLE that will go "bang" and put a .303 bullet through the centre of a service rifle match target at up to 300m. Increasingly, they're not likely to find anything fitting that description for less than about $750, heading towards $1000 if it's in really nice shape. And for that sort of money they can buy a new rifle that is guaranteed to work perfectly - sure, it's not a service rifle, but if they can only afford one rifle, they're likely to lean towards the "new one" because they also know they're not likely to get ripped off buying it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bindi2
That is not a good state of affairs for service rifle shooting - or, longer, term, collecting. All power to you if you're in a position to look for rare or specific rifles and pay a premium for them - I'm glad you're in that position.
Brand new in the wrap No4 Mk2s cost between $2,000 to $2,500. The quality of these rifles is of a much higher standard than most new hunting rifles.
I have range rifles in my collection from before I started range shooting in the 60s up to todays breeds. My go to work rifle is a No5.
I have similar issues with young guys who want to shoot F/O , FS, TR or FTR. The guys who shoot small bore say the same thing so you are not alone or a lone voice.
My hand guns are now worth more than I paid for them new in the 70s and I still use them. I think there is a thing called inflation at play here and I reckon we don't want deflation to occur any time soon.
I have a Q Colonel. How long has Service shooting got left. The Numbers of armourers who know how to service them properly and have the correct tools to do so are becoming another memory. Parts I am always on the lookout for parts including furniture, the supply has dried right up mainly because a certain PM sold all the Gov stores out of the country.
Importing parts is expensive like you wont believe. Parting rifles out on E-Bay is big business and a high earner.
I did a quick run on used guns found 3 MkIII's $400 with central sight, $500 Fair, $550 good and 1 No.4 $650
It is like Bindi says C E inflation niche market as they are not making them any more spares are drying up hence the new manufactured barrels on it goes you do not need a degree to see where the markets at but seriously I like Bindi have been at this for 45+ years and this is what the young guys/gals look at and wonder how they will ever afford it. They may get lucky and an older shooter getting out of the game may sell their lot outright or piecemeal anyway that is one source or using the gunfraternity (Clubs) to eek out a SMLE at a good price. Our Military side of the club here in Busselton is cranking along quite well without a sign of let up 100+ members we had just before xmas 2 saturdays numbers were 43 then 40 shooters turn up for the 100yd burst, those were not comp days either but about normal for most of our Military/Field shoots. We try to structure our shooting to help the youngsters so at 100 they can have a go at a .22 rim fire we still shoot at a Fig 12 anyway they enjoy it.
New shooters are very well catered for with members taking them under their wing and assisting them with guidance how to shoulder the weapon correctly to correct positions and so on this is where it starts that when they turn up new and knowing no one the clubs cater for them, we have 303 club guns or like members who will offer their rifles for a prospective member to shoot like a K98 or K31, Mosin!
This even extends to helping them when they get the gear to reload their ammo helping them set up the gear and what to watch for to avoid the fo pars we have encountered in all our years of reloading and they genuinely appreciate this
The no. of guys now shooting full bore has diminished considerably over the last 5 years with F class & Field rifle/Military taking up the slack.
Now then has armedeus76 got his 303 yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's actually an interesting question Bindi raises about how much longer Service Rifle shooting has. I think it's going to be around for the foreseeable future - there are still people shooting muskets, after all - but I can see it becoming increasingly niche over the next 30 years or so, when even the "newest" SMLEs will be a century old.
None of the "regulars" at my service rifle club are under 30, although we're working to change that and have a few younger folks coming along sporadically.
What I suspect is we might see a change away from SMLEs towards other military surplus rifles, though - or someone will decide it is economically worthwhile to start making new reproductions of some of the old rifles.
We discussed the AIA issues reproducing the No.4 if it happens again they will be inhibitively more expensive that an old war horse.
The problem with the LE is the Draws which means regular maintenance of the furniture, BLO and the knowledge of how to do it. Followed by barrels which seems to be solved . I doubt that there will be a market for Repro rifles there are to many crap ones out there for the foreseeable future parting out will help in the short term. The cost of making No1 actions was why the No4 came about. 3D printing may change that. I have MLM,MLE and LEs over 100 yrs old that still shoot ok but how well will the next owner maintain them.
As Cinders has said a little stock piling of supplies and gear for later on is good insurance in the newer disciplines maybe a better option for some.
We suggest to those that want to shoot F/S not to but go to FTR. One is Australian only the other is International more options same cost just a little different gear and rules.
The death knell for service shooting was the banning of SLRs and the failure of the Lithgow SS to the bolt actions.
Not necessarily - Imagine if someone like Uberti decided it was worth their while to do it, for example? That might keep the cost at something more accessible, especially 30 years or so from now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I believe a lot of the issues AIA had were to do with getting the guns into the US (something about parts of them being made in Vietnam and not eligible for import or something like that? I recall they had problems with importers as well) along with issues around actually communicating with the market about what they were doing - I don't recall seeing much in the way of advertising from them and there was certainly a lot of "Who are these guys and why does no-one know anything about them???" on the net at the time. This might be interesting reading, for one perspective on it all: The Mystery of Australian International Arms
Personally, I always thought AIA's big failing was not making an SMLE. Didn't have to be internally identical (I know how fiddly they are), but everyone I know who might have been interested in the guns said "I want a modern SMLE in .308" and instead they got a really expensive No. 4 and weird sporterised looking rifles in a calibre most people don't have ammo for.
Not yet, but I'll probably be hitting Brian Dick up in the next couple days after my Texas move headaches subside.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I thought the AIA's came in 2 calibers 308 WIN & 7.62 x 39 the latter may be hard to get at gun shops in the sticks but 308 is pretty much obtainable anywhere you go.
As far as I know, only the No. 4 repro was in .308; the carbines were in 7.62x39.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I know someone with one of the 7.62x39 carbines and it's a nice rifle which shoots well but it's troublesome to feed; finding ammo isn't always easy and it's mostly Norinco stuff, from what he tells me.
The M10A1 and M10A2 were in 7.62 x 39 Russian, the M10B1 and M10B2 were in 7.62 x 51 / 308W, the planned .223 Rem was never built to my knowledge
Dick
The Mk.8z was made for the Vickers MMG but for some reason, all of the reasonable surplus, (namely S&B and PPU), is loaded with boat tail projectiles. That's fine for a new in the wrap Mk.2 but what about the other rifles that have seen their fair share of cordite Mk.7?
Stand by for lots of flyers and keyholes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I must be the luckiest guy as every Lee Enfield I own and have shot shoots Sierra Match King 174 gr. boat tails extremely well.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I have to agree with that, also the 150gr SMK is a perfect match for 7.62mm Enfields like the Envoys and L39's etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
Same here the 174 SMK's go well the 150gn Hornady Spire point fly's good to 400M as it is a FB and .312" out of all my 303's
Because you have good barrels. He was pointing out barrels that had a weaker commencement.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
I agree Jim, my point was for some reason no matter how old every one I have shot must have a very good barrel which IMO is luck.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I had a #1 Mk3 for many years that was the opposite. It was an Ishapore that had a commencement about 3" long...shot OK and looked very nice. Eventually it sold.
It's not so much the overall bore condition but the wear pattern in the throat caused by cordite which burns very hot.
That's what I suspected had caused it, there was almost nothing for about 3" except it was still shiny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
You can buy the soft point, flat base projectiles like the Sierra Pro Hunters and they'll perform better than the SMK in many rifles. The 180 grain projectiles shoot very close to original 174 grain Mk.7/7z POI with the right load. You can buy 150 grainers too which obviously shoot lower so you just run the rear sight up. It's no big deal. There's less recoil too for those of us who have shoulders and necks full of arthritis. Some even like the 125 grainers which makes for very pleasant shooting on a 100 yard range.
I'm actually surprised most of the commercial ammo is BT - you'd think someone would make flat-base stuff since that's what the rifles are designed for?
The Bullet Factory 174gn HPFB is on the left compared to the 174gn SMK on the right to be honest I have not done much work up loads except to put the ogive at the same distance from the case base as a Mk VII and ensuring the assembled round fits in the mag which it does just.
So we have a service shoot next week end when I have fired a couple of hundred off I will get back to the group with what I discovered.
I brought 840 of them about 4 months ago but our range was closed but it has since reopened also they are reasonably priced @ .42cents each they mike out at .311" ~ .310.5"
Forgive me if it sounds like I'm talking a load of bolloxxx*, but I am not nor ever have been a reloader. But I know how nerdy this tribe of humanity can be. In respect to Colonels thread 46, surely if what you're getting is boat tails and what you want is flat base, it'd be simplicity itself to make a shaped cup thing to hold/support the bullet and a press thing to simply press the boat tail shape into a flat bottom shape. It's only very malleable copper and lead we're talking here. Bullet might end up a bit shorter but........
* Bolloxxs; REME technical term. Generally used as a term of frustrated expression to another hapless individual who appears to be talking an load of crap. As in '........that's a load of bolloxxs'. As used on a regular basis by Infantry too. BAR and Muffer will have used this term
You are right Peter. I found an old gentleman who was making the tool to do that. Was gently told to wander down to the end of the far que and wait several years till he caught up with orders. All other machinists bolted when asked.
Good sideline for you when you have little to nothing to do now you are retired.
I did get the plans of the upsetting dies sent to me but I suffered a computer crash which totaled it I got some stuff back but not all I cannot remember the chap who made the dies he was bumping 7.62's HPBT's out to .312 FBHP
If I was ever in your position Peter to being able reckie zillions of rounds for functioning tests on the weaponry and have a tad of fun on the side giving others a bit of experience in weapons then I would gladly put the reloading stuff behind me, sadly to pursue our sport requires to a degree deep pockets thats just for Service shooting do not worry about F class or Target Rifle.
174gn SMK's are running @90 cents each in one of our Service shoots we can loose off 106 rounds thats $95.40 just for projectiles, add cases, powder, primers well you get the drift so its not that we are quirky, touched or been out in the midday sun to long nor a few roo's short in the top paddock, its economic, an interesting study of how different things affect the accuracy of a load and so on.
As I already mentioned, Remington make a 174 grain, flat base FMJ projectile in their line of Remington-UMC target ammo. I'd guess it's loaded to Mk.7z specification but most don't want to pay the price per box. Dealer cost on the ammo is $21 and change a box. It simply doesn't compete price wise with the PPU and S&B that's produced overseas to Mk.8z spec.. For many folks, reloading is the only option. Some may remember when I tried in 2012 to get the engineers at Sierra to think about producing a Mk.7 projectile or at least one with the same flat base performance and failed miserably. I supplied pulled nos projectiles and dimensional drawing etc but to no avail. Of course, if I had dropped thousands of dollars up front, they would have done a run but that ain't gonna happen. I think all of the big bullet manufacturers are missing the boat on this one.
Remington should market the 174 FB FMJ .311 projectiles in bulk like they do 7.62 and 5.56 but they don't do it. The problem would be solved.
Yep Pete, it's a good word and applies equally well in this instance.
I remember doing a test on the different types of 303 projectiles a fair few years ago, results were posted on one of the forums, but don't remember which one.
Yes, some of the comments about boatails is correct, but only in respect of Milsurp Wartime style projectiles.
Modern Boattails are a totally different kettle of fish, softer jackets, larger bearing surface and are capable of bumping up to seal most of the battered and beaten barrels around.
Although I lost a lot of pics in the big crash, somewhere on one of my many computers, there should be the odd pic or two, like this one........
Attachment 79513
This one shows different projectile shapes in 303 pills, the Mk.VII flat base, Mk.VIIIZ boattail, and both Hornady and Sierra modern boattails.
Now note the profile of each pill, straight sided, full boat shape, straight with short boattail.
As you can see, the Mk.8 is fully rounded, only the smallest surface is in contact with the bore, limited chance of base bumpup, creating blowby in barrels with throat erosion or excessively worn lands and is subject to upset in the barrel, leading to excessive yaw on exit.
Which increases the reports of keyholeing that we see..........doesn't matter a toss in a MG.
Now look at the modern pills, long bearing surface(creates stability) short tail,and a soft jacket to boot.
Allowing these pills to partially bump and create a fair seal in pretty bad barrels.
Having done extensive firing tests on all these types(even shot a hole in the pool liner) my conclusions were that the modern projectile would bump up quite adaquately, givind good to acceptable accuracy in most barrels.
The barrel testing phase of this trial was conducted using a Chronograph.
All bad performance/keyhole effects were attributed to a loss of velocity, the muzzle velocity in a few bad barrels dropped below an exceptable level I.E. 1850FPS, whereas rounds that did not upset had a muzzle velocity above 2200FPS.
By diligent handloading(still using BT's) the velocity was increased to get the figure to an acceptable level(2000fps) where these barrels began to stabilise and give an acceptable level of accuracy.
Now some of the barrels trialled, were very bad, I expected jacket stripping and shearing, but to my surprise, other than one totally wasted barrel, the soft pills held together and bumped up to an exceptable level.
I could go on about this for hours, but I'm well past the days when I get a sore forehead from bashing my head against a brick wall.....so bollocks to all the disbelievers, you could learn something if you were willing to experiment, might even surprise yourself.
Time to put the milsurps ammo away, stop eroding your love toys away and give them a new lease on life.
Reloading is much easier on them anyway..........you can even molycoat to reduce the friction............and could be pleasantly surprised at the increase in accuracy.
Muff I have more than a few Hornady pills that look like that Highland which I am just starting to make look like the Mk7. Just need to tidy up the die length a little then test them. I also have a supply of 215gn Mk6 projectiles which out shoot most every thing else if I do my bit. I think the open base has more to do with accuracy than closed base ever will but then I am a new chum at this compared to you. :surrender:
Peter L lit a fire under me several days ago about the boat tails. :D :thup:
Bindii, Petes just a dyed in the wool bloody pom, you'd think he would have learned something working out here with us ozzies:runaway: (woops, no emogee for a flak jacket)
Found a pic that I commented on years ago, boattail fired in a 2 groove poor cousin.
Attachment 79514
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
He thinks he is safe back in Old Blighty.
Muff my trials started with why didn't 125gn Taipans group like the Mk7s followed by 150gn etc all the way out to the 212gn Mk6. The Poms ( say that quietly somebody might hear) worked out what worked best. then when they needed more velocity the 174gn with a light front, heavy rear appeared, all opened base because cordite was very erosive there fore requiring upset from a projectile. The flat base never gave me this except the heavy Taipans. So conclusions were minimum weight to length (only just) was 150gn FB, open base were the best unless the BT took away to much bearing surface. and the dreaded keyhole appeared. The light weight front certainly plays a major part in the length to weight ratio.
2 groove Savage was also used with a No1 Lithgow H barrel both range rifles. Nobels and IMR powder. Ran a shorter test with a BSA No5 some years later. Same conclusions.
The modern powders (ADI ) certainly have changed the state of play with higher velocities at lower pressure as I found with the No5 though the order did not change.
Hey Muffer, Bindi and Cinders. Being in Oz all that time and working hard and in tough situations taught me never to take things to heart. Stood me in good stead later. But back to my idea of spreading the boat tails. It'd need a lever pressing a ball bearing down into the centre and that'd do the trick. I might knock something up this afternoon.......
Peter I have a Corbin bullet making press and dies. By making another core stuffing die, modifying a shaping die I now have a means of turning OBBT into OB non BT. I don't think this setup would work with closed base boat tails. The jacket would have to be moved to much and rupture. The core would probably move forward as wellQuote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Like I said Bindi. I'm not a reloader just an engineer with a head full of ideas. But I'm not sure that the copper would split over the small amount that it would need to spread. After all, it's already been spread once and then rolled back and over. to make the bullets you have Not sure how the lead core could move forwards unless there was already an air gap ahead of it and while it'd spread out of course, you can't compress it. I know......., I know......., someone will come on within an hour and tell me that you can compress it...........
Pete the Pom
With FMJ the base is open, military style. Hunting or other civvie style bullets BT or FB the opening is in the front reverse manufacture.
I think the reasoning behind the solid base on commercial projectiles is to reduce the risk of jacket shedding.
The yanks and their silly Saami requirements are all aimed at reducing litigation.
Still, these jackets shed on the face of a coreflute target half the time, I'm often cutting myself on the jackets left behind...........maybe I should do less marking and more shooting.......take more care of my digits.
E Targets Muff. Then you can shoot all day much more fun and not as hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by muffett.2008
You get more shoots in due to fast details, we are looking at getting the NATO type D programmed into our system so Service can utilze them as well.
Hello sir,
I shoot my SMLE with Hornady brass and, lately, with S&B FMJBT bullets, .311, 180 hrs. Also Hornady FMJBT 174 grs., but they're a bit expensive, like Sierra etc. Powders either N140 or Lovex S060-2. I'm actually quite satisfied with all solutions and mixings.
I have now also some S&B brass I'll soon try out, but since I use them already on a few calibers (8x57, 7,62x54R and .308W), I have no doubts that also the S&B brass will be up to the needs.
You're all making me curious about the Prvi brass now.............
S & B brass in 303 does not have a very good name for reloading. Privi is good
In the end I had the rifle rebarelled, and hey presto, no more keyholing. I'm not sure the barrel was bedded properly though, as I've had to do a bit of messing about with the sights to get it to shoot more or less where I want it (and it's still not great) - but at least the holes it makes are nice and round now. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Also, the term "Bollocks" is well known in Australia/NZ, I can assure you - I've certainly deployed it enough myself in frustrating situations!
That would have nothing to do with keyholing though, just grouping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield
I recently tried out the Sellier Bellot 180 grain (boat tail) ogives for my reloading. They are half the price of the 174 grain SMK's and I wanted something a bit cheaper for practice shoots.
There are a few differences with the SB when compared to the SMK.
The SB are open at the base; which may be an advantage in rifles with worn barrels.
The weight variation is bad; only 9 out of 100 were exactly on the 180 grain weight. Lowest was around 176 grains and high end was 181 grains.
However having weighed out and batched them into groups of equal weight. (I bought 500). They actually perform well. Not quite as good as the SMK, but in view of the price difference; it's good value.
Hi 30three, I never weighed them, but I'll try one of these days.
I like to shoot them with a load of Lovex, since that allows me to make very cheap round and still have a very reasonable accuracy.
Maybe I'll try some more upgrade bullets sooner or later, just out of curiosity, but right now I still have 600 S&Bs.
How much difference do you find with SMK in terms of accuracy?
I have not been able to test at very long ranges. But using same rifle same day and sandbag rest the difference was about 0.5 MOA.
That's quite good considering the price difference. But you do need to spend the time batching them in to same weight loads. Tolerance +/- 0.1grain
If competing you need to ensure you have enough of the same batch for practice, the match and a few spares. All the odd rounds or small batches are kept for fun shoot's or mates that want to try out the rifle.
With the SMK it's load it and shoot it. There weight variation is minimal.
However both types need some experimenting with powder and load to get the best results.
I just had a look at the S&B for their 180gn Factory round FMJ and from a 100M zero it drops 54.8cm or 21.57 inches at 300m that is a fairly rainbow trajectory the M V is 755 m/s which is 2,447 fps out of a 60cm barrel 23.62" barrel.
Thank you for the suggestion.Quote:
Originally Posted by 30Three
I have never thought about it since the accuracy was ok and I keep shooting different rifles each time, so I never really get to tighten up to the extremes.
Lately I started using the same rifle for a few times and have seen the improvements in my results immediately, so I guess I'll be able to see and feel the difference selecting the bullets by weight.
Reloading is just so much fun!
That's my point. The rifle is no longer keyholing but the grouping isn't great so it's going to need more tweaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
We've done yards of threads on this one, good luck...better you than me. It can sure take time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Enfield
Thanks. I'd intended to try and keep it "Mil Spec" for use in general service rifle competitions but I'm thinking I might have to get it properly bedded and keep it for modified class competitions and hunting.
I don't know if bedding will be needed unless you start with a problem. I'll bet it can be made good with just the regular fitting..."Just"...that could be lots.
I'm open to suggestions on where I can look for info on doing that properly... :p
A couple for you CE from my collection the Wadham book is very good can be brought as an E-book but I got a H/C as a better option. I am sure there are the guys here that can just about bed a Lee Enfield with their eyes closed they are a very good source also have a look through old threads.
I'll have to check my library - pretty sure I've got a copy of Sweets somewhere and it wouldn't surprise me if I'd picked up a copy of Skennerton & LaBudda's book in my travels too!