M1891 Argentine Mauser

Does anybody shoot the M1981 Argentine Mauser? I've had two. The first one was sporterized and scope mounted by my friend & his dad. When he was raising some money for another rifle about 25 years ago I bought it from him for $125, scope included. Great deer rifle, flat shooting & accurate. A few years ago I gave the rifle to my son. Well, about two years ago I wanted another one and bought my current un-sporterized M1891 for $185 which I thought was a little high. But, I see on gun broker the prices they're asking and a guy at the local gun show has had one for sale for $285 (maybe that's why he still has it). I have at least two hundred casings for it & I like the fact that you can form new casings from 30 '06 shells. Ten years ago or so I could find loaded Norma rounds for $10 or $12 but not anymore. Midway has it listed for $39.49!!! My current rifle shoots fine but the "V" notch sight is a bear for my eyes to use (need younger eyes!).

I've posted some photos of my rifle, all the numbers match except for the bayonet (the picture of the bolt number didn't turn out well). And yes the crest has been scrubbed on the receiver and bayonet. The number on the cleaning rod is very difficult to see.

Let's hear from Argentine Mauser collectors & shooters. Doesn't matter if you have an M1891, M1909 or whatever. Let's see what you've got.

P.S. I've got the hand guard but I haven't wanted to dismantle the rifle to install it.

I have a "stone-mint" M91 that I never use.

I once had a sporterized M91 that dropped a whitetail for me. (I also made the ammo from 30-06 cases.)

Also, have two, consecutive numbered M98-09's, new/stone-mint, bright receivers, with test targets taped to the butt-stocks. These are covered in protective grease (cosmo??) and are slated to go to my son.
As to the targets, I've always wondered if these rifles were fired at these targets in Germany or after they were shipped to Argentina. The targets have Spanish language at the top.
Anyone out there know?

My "shooter" is a M98-09 with blued receiver. --Jim

Well, mine is what you might call a baby Mauser - the 1891 Engineer's Carbine. Just about the shortest Mauser ever built (there was a cut-down version of the Belgian 1889, but that what not how it was built).

There are several pics of this type in the Olson and Ball books. The sight really is a pain for grandpa's eyeballs. And the sight length is also about the shortest ever - even a Thomson Contender could be better in that respect.

The 1891 has an enormously long freebore (see Olson P. 55). An HPBT type bullet is useless. Dropping a Sierra HBPT into the chamber, the bullet is 17 mm clear of the case neck before it touches the lands!

For good shooting results you need a flat-base (like the classic British 174 gn for 303) or, even better, a long flat-base round nose, like the Hornady. This has produced the best results to date. This is simply because you need the maximum length of best-fitting cylindrical section to guide the bullet down that long freebore.

BTW, the action is not as strong as a 98, which was several development stages later. In general, actions of this vintage should be fed with very mild loads. Even if the system will take it, bending the action body is not conducive to good accuracy!

Patrick

I have this late DWM M91, an unpictured early "C" prefix by Lowe and a nice 1909---as you can see here.
I shoot them all (and without weeping about cheek owies).


Ammunition---Graf and Sons out of Mexico Missouri, sells brass and loaded ammunition. Lots of choices besides Norma and cheap enough to make forming your own out of .30-'06 a big waste of time.
-----krinko

One of my Argentine Mausers is a cherished possession acquired about forty years ago for $25. It's one of 200 made for the University Battalion and has a B.U. prefix to the serial number. The wood shows some finish wear but it's in very good condition with a mint bore. I need to shoot it again after letting it lie idle for a number of years. In addition to that I have another 1891 that's post '98 and in fair condition, an 1891 engineer carbine, an '09 long rifle that was arsenal reblued, a DWM cavalry carbine, an '09 engineer carbine with the special bayonet adapter for the older model bayonet, and a couple of Argentine manufactured '09 carbines. I've been negligent in giving these excercise, too. I've got brass so I can reload for them. I do have surplus ammo for them but it's not of the greatest quality. Carl

Carl, can you post photos? I'm sure others would like to see all that you have including myself. The first one sounds interesting. Was that for a program similar to our ROTC?

(I posted this on another thread and just found this thread. I apologize if it's redundant but I'd like to know if these are safe.)

"I inherited this old Mauser from my father about ten years ago. I don't know much at all about this type rifle but my dad sporterized it in the early sixties. He was a traveling salesman back then and worked on it in motel rooms. (Try that today!)

He killed a lot of deer with it when I was young. I know it's not worth anything, and he ruined any collector value it might have had but I wouldn't take anything for it.

I just thought someone might find it interesting or know something about these. I know it is the original caliber. My dad was having a hard time finding ammo for it at times even way back then.

I’ve never shot it. I had one 'knowledgeable' acquaintance tell me these models are not safe to shoot modern ammo, and I don't reload. Does anyone know if this is true? If it is safe, I'll take it to a gunsmith and have it checked out. I know it hasn't be fired in about 40 years. It appears in good condition and bore looks great. My dad always kept his guns oiled and in a gun safe. It would be really nice to shoot my dad's first deer rifle. He had a huge collection of hunting rifles by the time he passed away and my mom sold all of them to a dealer for pennies on the dollar without telling anyone. (It still makes me sick to think about it)
She later regretted it, but she was doing weird things at that time to try to stop the pain of losing my dad.
She saved the Mauser, his .243 Mannlicher, and an old Trapdoor because she knew my dad said I could have them when he passed away".


https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...231Small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...216Small-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...224Small-1.jpg

CAFDFW, It looks like your Dad did a bang up job of sporterising his rifle. It appears that you have an M1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65 x 53 (first developed in Belgium in 1889). The M1891 is considered an antique and not subject to the GCA of 1968, if it's in its original configuration. Factory loaded ammo is hard to find now-a-days. If you go to the Midway website they have Norma 174gr for $39.49 (Norma is considered to be premium ammo). They also have Prvi Partizan for $14.99 a box. I thought the Prvi would be corrosive and non-reloadable but the description said it is non-corrosive and they are reloadable. My non-scientific opininion is that your rifle is safe to shoot but of course my opinion is worth what you paid for it. The Prvi ammo should be okay for plinking. If you are into reloading your options are greatly expanded. You could cruise the gunshows for Norma brass or create your own from 30 '06 brass. The M1891's are a tough good shooting rifle. By all means, have it checked out and shoot your Dad's rifle. I think you'll be glad you did.

Thank you so much Stonewall56!

Old firearms have always held a special interest for me as they seem to have a living link with the past. I've bowhunted only for the past fifteen years but had to have spine surgery last year. I figured I'd take up hunting with a rifle next season because it's too painful to pull back a bow and I'm getting too old to be climbing in trees anyway. I think it would be a special link to use my dad's old hunting rifle to hunt with or to let my son hunt with it.

~ Harlan

If I get ambitious, I'll take photos and post some or a link to some. The University Battalion M91 is the most interesting. It may have been more like ROTC but I really don't know. Carl

I finally found a photo of my old Argentine Mauser that I gave to my son. I had to covert the photo from a Publisher file and it's not by itself as it's laying next to one of its brothers.

I have two that I have yet to take to the range, but hope to soon. One engineers carbine and one rifle. Both are in the "C" serial range and my brass handled bayonet is 1102 away from the rifle.
Does anyone know if the rifles were originally issued with the same serial numbered bayonet?
john

I have an 1891 Argentine mauser that's in beautiful shape, with the crest.

It's been to the range once -- couldn't keep the rounds on an 8 1/2 x 11 sheet of paper at 25 yards.

Was using a friend's reloads. My friend's 1891 shoots just fine with the same ammo.

I'm going to try some different ammo -- I got a few boxes of Privi Partisan a while ago. and I also have some corrosive milsurp. Next on my list: give it a good cleaning and try
again.

Oregon Bob

Oregon Bob, try the following. It's not micron engineering, but it is good enough to narrow down the problem, which is probably in the throat. And the results may give you a great surprise!

If you look at P. 55 of "Mauser Bolr Rifles" by Ludiwig Olson, you will find a drawing of the chamber-throat transition area of the Argentine Model 91. This section is so long that just about every bullet you can find will be completely free of the case neck before starting to engage the lands. It is a real free-bore. No use in discussing why Mauser thought that was a good idea in 1891. that's how it is and we have to live with it.

Try this: get a meter/yard length of screwed brass (NOT steel) rod. Something like 6mm X 1 or 1/4" x 28. Close the bolt. Feed the rod down until it is sitting on the bolt face. Now run a nut down the rod until it just touches the muzzle. I also use a ring with a grub screw outside the nut (away from the muzzle) so this can be clamped for the next stage.

Now withdraw the threaded brass rod. Remove the bolt and tilt the rifle down towards the muzzle, so you can slide (not drop) a bullet into the chamber and down the throat.
Now hold the rifle horizontal. Insert a rod into the action behind the bullet and push the bullet forwards until it JUST touches the lands. If you now reinsert the brass rod and push it gently down the barrel, while still holding the rod at the chamber end, you will be able to feel the point where the rod just pushes the bullet off the lands again. I said this wasn't micron technology, but with practice you can feel this point to an accuracy of 2o thou or so. Now run the nut forward until it just touches the muzzle again. The distance the nut has moved is the maximum overall length of cartridge you could theoretically use. I say theoretically because if you measure this distance you will probably find it is much, much longer than your PRIVI/Partisan cartridge. In fact, in the case of my Engineer's Carbine, it was 17 mm longer than the cartridge case + bullet!

I couldn't get all the shots on the paper either, at 50 meters. The PRIVI bullets, or any other boattail type (I also tried Sierra), just fly unguided down the freebore, hit the throat on a skew, and we have both seen what kind of (in)accuracy that produces.

The only way to deal with such a freebore is to have the largest diameter bullet that is safe in that rifle with the longest cylindrical section you can find - to keep the bullet as straight as possible until it engages the lands.

Next stage: the 174gn flatbase bullets as used for British 303 ammo. Better, but still poor. An dI need them for my Enfields.

Finally: the Hornady flat-base round-nose type. This has the best fit I have found up to now. The long cylindrical portion guides the bullet as well as you can, unless you go to customized lead bullets. These bullets improved my Engineer's Carbine up to 3" groups at 100 meters, and that is for me the end of the road at present, as I just have not got the time for casting 7.65 mm bullets as well as keeping my BPCRs and muzzle-loaders fed.

Patrick

cafdfw

Looks like your father did a very nice job sporterising the M91. While it has no "collector" value so what? If that were mine and my Dad had sporterised it and used it that rifle would be far more 'valuable" to me as a family heirloom than any "collector' grade M91 would or could be.

Yes it is entirely safe to fire modern ammo in it. Modern ammo (Norma, PVRI and Hornady) are all loaded to the original pressure levels. I have pressure tested all of them with an Oehler m43. The are actually less pressure than the Argentine milsurp that I've tested. I've found the Hornady 7.65 Argentine at Cabella's without problem. It is loaded with hornady's 150 gr SP (.312) and chronographs 2761 fps out of my 24" barreled M91. The pressure is 53,200 psi(M43) which corresponds fairly well to the old 45,000 CUP pressure for SR Mausers. It also is quite accurate in my M91.

Were I you I would get some factory ammo and a reloading outfit and use that rifle on a couple deer/pig hunts or maybe and antelope hunt. Loaded with the .311 gr Sierra gamekings at 2550 fps it would also make for a nice elk rifle. Use it, think of your father, and pas it on in the family so they will remember you and your father.

Larry Gibson

Thank you Larry.

I took my dad's old Mauser to a gunsmith and it checked out OK by him.

Several years ago someone told me these were unsafe to fire and I put it in my safe and never attempted to find ammo for it.

I live in Texas and have hunted whitetails and pigs with a compound bow only for the past fifteen years, but health issues are on me now and I couldn't hunt for the past two years. (Spine disease and an operation)

Since your message I tried to find ammo here in anticipation for maybe hunting next season, but so far I haven't found anything.

It's funny how things 'click' in your brain but I remember that my dad had two old boxes of ammo in the 'Norma' brand for many years in the back of his safe near his old Mauser. When my dad died my mom emptied his safe of most everything.

I hope I can find the correct ammo soon and take it to the range. The old scope still has clear optics but I have no idea if they will print after 40 years.
(It would be very cool if they are still close!)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8800x600-1.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larry Gibson

cafdfw

Looks like your father did a very nice job sporterising the M91. While it has no "collector" value so what? If that were mine and my Dad had sporterised it and used it that rifle would be far more 'valuable" to me as a family heirloom than any "collector' grade M91 would or could be.

Yes it is entirely safe to fire modern ammo in it. Modern ammo (Norma, PVRI and Hornady) are all loaded to the original pressure levels. I have pressure tested all of them with an Oehler m43. The are actually less pressure than the Argentine milsurp that I've tested. I've found the Hornady 7.65 Argentine at Cabella's without problem. It is loaded with hornady's 150 gr SP (.312) and chronographs 2761 fps out of my 24" barreled M91. The pressure is 53,200 psi(M43) which corresponds fairly well to the old 45,000 CUP pressure for SR Mausers. It also is quite accurate in my M91.

Were I you I would get some factory ammo and a reloading outfit and use that rifle on a couple deer/pig hunts or maybe and antelope hunt. Loaded with the .311 gr Sierra gamekings at 2550 fps it would also make for a nice elk rifle. Use it, think of your father, and pas it on in the family so they will remember you and your father.

Larry Gibson

---

PS -
Long story about this little boar, but he attacked me twice while I was ground hunting on a hillside late in the deer season. He ran me up a tree at one point. As it turned out he had been wounded from a gun shot in the top of his snout and he was mad at the world.

I'm too old for this stuff now. Guns again.

i pic up one at the pawn shop for 175. dollars out the door

I have recently seen M91's for sale in Shot Gun News. The story goes that they are recent imports from Argentina. Not over priced, either, but they are incomplete guns. Might be right for the right guy. They were in storage for many years and are not beaters. Some mint barrels in the mix, I understand. Just a heads up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

I have recently seen M91's for sale in Shot Gun News. The story goes that they are recent imports from Argentina. Not over priced, either, but they are incomplete guns. Might be right for the right guy. They were in storage for many years and are not beaters. Some mint barrels in the mix, I understand. Just a heads up.

---

Do you know if there are still ads in SGN for the 1891s?

I have purchased several 1891 and 1909s Cav Carbs thru mail order and they were all
very poor condition. Started looking several decades ago.

I would like to find a decent, VG or better 1891 Cav Carb. I have an engineers carbine which I love. Only now I only shoot it occasionally because I can't see the tiny sights. My first centerfire rifle was an unfired 1909 which I purchased at a hardware store about 1969. I still have it. Still my favorite.
My dad bought one too and I latter went back and got another. All unfired condition.
I later sporterized one because I wanted to see what it could do with a scope. I had no trouble out shooting model 70s ( un altered) with out the scope and got under 1" moa with the 6X Weaver and 50 Gr H4831 and Sierra 180 .311 bullets. Which I eventually loaded to an overall length that kept the bullet just short of the rifling. I also use IMR 4320 for a faster load in the 1909s using the Sierra accuracy load. I had to learn how to reload right away because at that time it was near impossible to find loaded ammo. So I wrote to Norma and they sent me fantastic reloading books no charge. IMO Argentine rifles are the nicest Mausers made. Perhaps the Persian models are great too but I have not seen one first hand.

Attachment 38902
Love my little "Mini Mauser" 1891 Engineer/Calvery carbine.

HoH, yours is the Cavalry Carbine, not the Engineers Carbine, which has extra bands for the bayonet.

Attachment 38911

Cute, aren't they?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

HoH, yours is the Cavalry Carbine, not the Engineers Carbine, which has extra bands for the bayonet.


Cute, aren't they?

---

Cute is a perfect word.
Mine appears to be an Engineer carbine converted back to Calvery configuration. The numbers match stock/reciever but it has an Engineer rear sling attachment with a plate in place of the Calvery rear sling attachment point. In addition the places where the bayo lugs were on the forestock have been dowelled. I have seen a couple of others like this.

Original test targets attached to your Argentine Mauser were fired at the factory range by the mauser staff and signed by the resident Argentine acceptance staff. They add significantly to the value of your original Mauser Rifle so don't lose them. There is an excellent book on Argentine Mausers that complements Olsens book nicely, and which is available through Amazon.com, that I would highly recommend!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

Mine appears to be an Engineer carbine converted back to Calvery configuration. The numbers match stock/reciever but it has an Engineer rear sling attachment with a plate in place of the Calvery rear sling attachment point. In addition the places where the bayo lugs were on the forestock have been dowelled.

---

My word, you're right! Maybe the Argentines were short of Calvalry Carbines, had more than enough Engineers Carbines, and did a conversion. It certainly looks like a proper job, not a fudge!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick

My word, you're right!

---

Probably the first time.
I was an impulse buy at a gunshow. I did not have a clue what it was (thought it might be a cadet rifle os some sort due to the size). It is great fun to come here and other places online and educate myself on old milsurps. You and others of you here are an invaluable resource. I learn somthing new on each visit.

Over the 2012 Christmas holiday I had my first opportunity to test fire a 1891 ('Argentine') Mauser rifle which I'd acquired several months ago.

I would like to post my analysis of the rifle's magazine feed action in the hope that more knowledgable people will critique my comments so that I can learn.

-----------------

The 1891 ('Argentine') Mauser has a relatively primitive magazine feed design as compared to the later Mauser rifles.

The follower is a simple flat piece of steel that pushes 'up' on any loaded cartridges and the only thing that keeps them from popping out of the magazine is that the left and right sides of the topmost part of the magazine (effectively 'lips' although they are merely bevelled sides) are slightly too close together for the width of one cartridge to get through.

The left and right sides of the magazine (the entire magazine and not just the top portion) are made of thin, springy, steel. It is quite easy to squeeze the sides slightly and impart a minute bow to the sides such that the opening at the top of the magazine can be adjusted to be slightly too narrow for a cartridge to readily pop up-and-out.

When the bolt is pushed forward its lower portion catches the upper edge of the topmost cartridge and causes it to begin to slide forwards towards the barrel's breech (at this point the entire cartridge is still held in the magazine by the narrow sides). As the tip of the bullet begins to ride up the feed ramp assembly this causes the forward portion of the cartridge to begin to pull through the narrow opening at the top of the magazine (the flexible sides of the magazine allow the too narrow opening at the top of the magazine to expand out slightly as the forward portion of the cartridge is pulled through the opening); during this time the rear of the cartridge is still held within the magazine by the narrow sides.

As the bullet continues to ride up the feed ramp the rest of the cartridge follows (being pushed by the bolt) and as this action continues the rear of the cartridge is finally pulled free of the magazine's narrow sides (basically pulled up-and-out of the magazine by the action of riding up the feed ramp).

Adjusting the width of the opening at the top of the magazine, and of the upward force imparted by the follower (caused by the two springs in the lower portion of the magazine), appears to be critical in insuring a successful cartridge feed action.

Too wide an opening of the top of the magazine, or too much upward force being imparted by the follower, and either will cause the cartridges (in some cases all of them) to be ejected out of the magazine. Too narrow an opening of the top of the magazine and the cartridge trying to feed into the breech will tend to jam as the tip of the bullet begins to ride up the feed ramp. (Too little push from the follower and the cartridges loaded in the magazine would lie in the bottom and not be pushed up against the narrow opening at the top of the magazine but this condition would be immediately obvious.)

The critical magazine adjustments appear to be having just enough upward 'push' by the follower to cause a fully loaded magazine (I could only get 4 cartridges in my rifle's magazine) to reliably hold all the cartridges such that they are up against the slightly too narrow opening at the top of the magazine and for the narrowness of the top of the magazine to be only as narrow as needed to keep the cartridges from popping out on their own. With these conditions met the topmost cartridge should not quite be able to pop out of the magazine until the tip of the bullet begins to ride up the feed ramp (and then the tail end of the cartridge finally pulls up-and-out of the magazine as the bolt pushes the cartridge further into the breech.).

Comments ? Agree ? Disagree ?

Agreed. An excellent description. What saves the whole mechanism is that it is fairly easy to adjust the lips to improve the feeding if you have a problem. Tip: check that there are no burrs on the lips! A microscopic smoothing of the inside edges with a diamond lap - almost polishing - is helpful.

I wish I could make out that thing you might call a notch in the rear sight. It would sure make it easier to hit a target.:)
john

Use shooting spectacles (many organizations require them anyway, for safety reasons) with an adjustable iris fitted in front of the aiming eye. Close down the iris until it all suddenly goes dim or you start to see "spiders' webs" in the aperture, indicating that the aperture is smaller than the dilated pupil of the aiming eye. Then enlarge the aperture a little. It suddenly becomes brighter as the aperture reaches the same size as the dilated pupil. This setting therefore varies according to the lighting conditions, which is why you must use an adjustable iris.

While you're at it, get your eyesight checked , preferably by an optician who understands shooters' requirements. The typical optician is used to making up driving glasses or reading glasses, and you need neither of these. You need shooting glasses, optimized for the best image of the foresight. Stopping down the aperture is what enables you to get a reasonable image of the backsight and the target. But the foresight image comes first!

You people are making me very angry :bitch: .............................. That I do not have one

Might have to do something about that... You and me both. Was lusting after a '91 rifle yesterday, but madly bought an Argentine Colt instead...Had the rifle still had the crest intact...

I'd like to hear more about this University Battalion stuff, if anyone has info. Bought this 1891 Argentine in 1963. Haven't done anything with it except buy some mil ammo in clips, boxes of Norma brass and reloading dies. BU164 matching serial numbers, no bayonet, still blued (as I received it then). Barrel has picture of a book and says Battalon Universita R10 de la Capital Federal. Just cleaned the bore last month, maybe I'll check it with a bore scope. Cartouche on right butt stock and at least 3 on the underside of the buttstock between trigger and toe.

Always thought I might shoot it so I'm sorry to hear it has a long throat.

Is the R10 designation for a different University than the R11? Or a different year???

If anyone is interested in the US you can get 7.65x53 ammo all day every day through Cabelas or Bass Pro shops its the PPU brand but it shoots fine and isnt hard ont he wallet its around $24 a box of 20 rounds.. I take mine too my local gun shop and have them reloaded after shooting as I am partial to a 7.65x53.5 instead

EDIT; just noticed this runs to multiple pages. I well may have my 1891 already posed in there. If so, Sorry!

I have a pretty nice M1891 rifle. Nothing special about it, just a basic K series Loews. But then, this whole series of rifles is special... a classic example of the 19th century gun maker's art back when it was still art. Beautiful woodwork, fine finish and deep bluing, these rival some of the better custom rifles of the day and put anything made today but the most expensive custom rifles.
When I got mine several years ago I thought I overpaid at $179. Now lets just say I'm good with it.:cool:
I have only shot it a few times since I don't reload and the ammo is expensive. I find it a great shooter and the long sight radius helps too. Personally, I don't have any problems with the V notch rear sight as I have probably used such more than any other sight. I too have lousy eyes and yes, my target scores are pitiful with any iron sights these days too. I just prefer shooting them and accept the best I can do as the best I can do and that's good enough for me. If I should go hunting again, I'll use a scope even though I hate the things. I figure I'd owe it to the animal.
One thing to keep in mind is that there is ammo in this chambering marked SF.:thdown: You never want to use these in an 1891. (For that matter, you probably don't want to shoot it in anything but the 98 action will handle any problems arising from it. The 1891 might not.

Anyway, here's pics...
Attachment 40652 Attachment 40653 Attachment 40654 Attachment 40655 Attachment 40656 Attachment 40657 Attachment 40658

Concerning the shortest Mauser, (from 1st page) I don't know how short that carbine referred to above is but, the Yugoslav M1924ЧК (CK) or Chetnik carbine. This weapon is entirely different from the FN M1924 based Yugoslav rifle and carbines M1924.
This shorty had an oal of 37" and a bbl length of 15.94".
Photo courtesy of MMRotW
Attachment 40659

I have two model 1891 rifles.

One is a long rifle that is in very nice condition but has the crest very nicely ground off. Some I've seen are almost as bad as some of the defaced mums on Arisakas.

The other is a short rifle. Not really a carbine. It has been cut down from a long rifle and either sold to Peru or the Peruvians did the job themselves. There are pics of the rifles in the fourth edition Mauser military rifles of the world on page 278.

They have also had the rear sight changed to the Lange Visier style to conform with sights they were presently using on their other issue rifles.

The muzzles were also turned down to the same diameter as their other issue rifles so they could utilize their existing "Quill"type bayonets.

The book specifies that the rifles had the receiver rings restamped with the Peruvian crests. Mine isn't stamped like that.

As Patrick mentioned, these rifles have extremely long throats. I don't know what they were originally loaded with but I suspect they used 220 grain bullets or something in that range.

I have a small supply of 220 grain round nose FMJ bullets, that I picked up somewhere. They measure out at .312in and the short rifle, as well as the long rifle shoot them better than my aging eyes can see the targets at . The long rifle is much easier to aquire a clear target and front sight picture with than the short rifle. Three to four inch groups are not unusual with these bullets.

It's obvious from the crimp marks on the bullets that they were pulled and sold as surplus. They work very well in any Lee Enfield, chambered in 303Brit I've used them in. Same can be said for the 7.7 Arisaka.

We tend to forget, long heavy bullets for calibre were the norm back in the days these rifles were designed and built.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NRA

You people are making me very angry :bitch: .............................. That I do not have one

---

:dancingbanana:

After having delayed getting the almost mint (sans crest) '91 rifle, another was found in slightly less pristine shape for ~US$150 less. That one went home with me yesterday and is getting a minor cleaning. Doesn't appear that it's had hardly any rounds through it! Certainly not since it was shipped out of Argentina. That situation may be rectified before long...

Phooey! Looks like range time will be delayed. No dies, only 16 old Norma cases, and no 174gr Hornady RN bullets...And none to be had locally. The reloading supplier from which the gear is coming states that it will be 3-4 weeks before delivery. At least I remembered to order the .43 Spanish brass this time...

I was sure I had dies, and reasonably sure that the preferred bullets were about, but apparently not.:p

Have any of y'all worked up any 200gr lead bulleted loads for this caliber? ~2000fps seem doable and would about duplicate the original round, just minus the cupronickel jacket.

Went and gave another look at the rifle not purchased. Not quite as nice overall as remembered, more expensive than remembered, and the bore isn't nearly as good, but still pretty good. Happy not to have rushed into that one! They did have two 1891 bayonets with crests intact. One with aluminum scales, the other with brass. Both "A" series, IIRC. US$189 and 249, don't remember which was which.

Additionally, they had a couple of Argentine 1909 "short swords": They look like bayonets without the attaching hardware and guards that wouldn't work on a rifle. Not my "thing", but different.