I'm trying to decide which to go with... For the reloader out there, which do you prefer and why?
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I'm trying to decide which to go with... For the reloader out there, which do you prefer and why?
I've used a vibrating tumbler for decades after starting with a rotary. They work much better with corncob that walnut and jeweler's rouge. The sonic cleaner is a different animal all together. i know guys that use them for firearms cleaning and they tell me there's all sorts of small stuff brought out by them. Still, vibra tumbler will be where I stay.
I guess its horses for courses really depending on how thorough you want to be with cleaning the shells if your just varmint shooting the vibe is adequate if your wanting to get everything cleaned back to almost brand new inside and out the sonic is the way to go but a bit more effort.
I have both using the vibe one until the insides of the cases look fairly carboned up (can alter neck tension) then bash them in the sonic cleaner to do the inside the case & it will do the primer pockets as well (Primer has to be out) you use distilled water for both the cleaning & rinsing but what I do is when the brass first comes out I wash it under a hose then rinse it in the distilled water (tap water will leave the brass stained).
I then with the distilled water used to rinse the shells pop that back into another spare container and this I use in the sonic cleaner when doing another batch sorta preserving the water a bit.
When your shells come out of the vibratory tumbler they have a very fine coating of walnut or corncob/carbon powder from the process this has to be wiped from the shells before they go anywhere near a re-sizing die either neck or FLS as when you lube your cases your just making a grinding paste that after a good while wrecks the sizer, its the fine carbon that will do it, also you may suffer a stuck case in the die not easy to get out if you do not have the correct gear to pull it from the die.
With drying the shells I made up a peg base (see pic its behind the 303) and sit them neck down on the pegs (angled so the primer hole is not blocked by the peg) place them in the sun for 1/2 day to dry them completely out you can use a heat gun but be very careful not to get the shells too hot and of course never put the shells in an oven to dry them.
Jim is correct Corncob is the best to use in the vibe the walnut I have tried and it seems to take ages, you can if you want knock the primers out before the placing in the vibe but be warned the kernal particles do get jammed in the flashole and primer hole bit tedious to get out better to leave them in and use a primer pocket cleaner.
Yep its good if you like picking up all those S/S pins all the time there are now ceramic balls as well its like everything do the leg work ask around and choose what you feel is the best suits your purpose most new time reloaders start with a vibe tumbler as they are cheap to own & run then when you perhaps want to get into the inside of the case make a choice either sonic or S/S pins they both use water & chemicals.
When this happens, I dump out the corncob green and run the empties in the tumbler for a few minutes. This rattles out most of the particles.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I too have acquaintances using this method. It works 100%, except it's the messiest thing known to man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve762
If your brass is REALLY dark and dirty, there is the "el-cheapo" chemical "pre-wash" method I use.
De-prime the cases with a specialized decapping die, (Lee make one).
Dump the de-primed brass in vinegar; "cleaning" grade is MUCH cheaper than the fancy stuff from the deli.
Slosh it around for a while until you see the "brown" fading to "yellowish".
Rinse in HOT water and drain.
Drop them into a strong, hot solution of "washing soda". This is an old-school substance (Sodium Carbonate, sometimes called Soda Ash) that is used as a water-softener in clothes washing, a kitchen grease and grime remover, etc.
Stir with a plastic paddle etc. and watch as the cases go a nice "brass" colour. Rubber gloves are advised as this stuff is caustic.
If, after this process, some cases are still stubbornly "brownish", simply run them through the process again.
Another thorough hot rinse, drain and then spread out on an old sheet in direct sunlight. Snow-bound reloaders may need to seek alternative methods, but, DO NOT just shove them in the oven and forget about them unless you want cases that are TOTALLY annealed and dangerously soft at the head.
Clean / de-crimp primer pockets as required and for that "extra shine" run through your tumbler of choice. Because of the work done in the chemical prep, it will only take a short time to make them look pretty.
Have done thousands with the vibrator I still use, it does a acceptable job. Have a couple friends that use the tumbler and steel pins and IMO it is the way to go. Their cases come out looking better than new, I intend to get one very soon.
The walnut shells are very dusty and brass needs to be cleaned before any next step.
---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:18 PM ----------
One of my friends picks up the pins with a strong magnet, he showed me how it works, probably gets 99.9% first attempt.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
I have both and use both. I take my fired brass and put it in the sonic for thirty minutes and let them dry overnight upside down in the plastic trays from the cartridge boxes. The next day they go in the vibratory tumbler for between 6 and 16 hours which depends on the corncob. If the media is at least fairly new 6 to 8 hours if it's been well used longer. I find that when the cases start coming out very dusty it's time to change the media. I take the dusty brass and roll it on an old towel. Then it's on to the sizing die. That's my process anyways.
---------- Post added at 05:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:21 AM ----------
Oh and I find that running them through the sonic first makes the media last a lot longer.
Right, I forgot about that. Use one of the on/off magnets and you pick them up and then deposit them where you want without effort. Yes, it makes brass perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
I use a vibratory tumbler, corncobs, and a half cap of NuFinish polish. This will last me a fair amount of time before I will dump like half and put in fresh media. Works great though I do agree it doesn't do a great job on the insides, but I never have issues running them through my dies. Only crappy part is the time to fish them out, I want to get one of the media separators but I feel that opens me up to a lot of media loss.
I dump the media through a colander and sift it that way. Then for the last little bit I just tumble it dry in the bowl and it shakes out the last little nibs of corncob. Then I put the brass through a towel and shake them back and forth and finish cleaning off that way. They come out about new.
FYI, turns out the dust from the corn cob or walnut shell media is full of lead, which, if inhaled, can do nasty things to your blood lead levels. Much of the lead is from primer residue. I've transitioned to the sonic cleaners and may try the stainless pin method soon. Amazing the amount of muck that the sonic cleaner bath accumulates! (Which also contains lead, but much easier to deal with for disposal.)
I made a plexiglass cover that goes between the normal cover and the bowl to keep dust down but one could use anything. A few tablespoons of automotive rubbing compound nullify the dust and acts as a polish. Another way to deal with dust is a few tablespoons of Mineral Spirits.
Anybody else have some BBs mixed in with the media?
I've been using this stuff for decades and don't understand what you guys are on about here. I've never had dust issues at all, there's a minor residue when removing cases from corncob but no suspended particulate. I always have the lid on the tumbler and clean it regularly. The cases get toweled after and the towel washed. Yes, it makes sense that there's lead azide in the corncob from the primers. That's where it would go. We make too much of nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmoore
No? I used to get a fine green coat all over my bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Just had coffee with one of the guys that uses the pins, his reloads are a work of art and if I knew then what I know now would only go the pin route.
My other friend that uses the pins turns out reloads that are the best I have ever seen, perfection to the ultimate degree and uses a 12 step method. He also has a M14 that he has developed a load for that shoots amazingly tight groups. He tells me the process he uses insure there are no errors in the reloads.
I use my lid, screwed down tight and nothing gets out. I've never even heard of that happening...really.Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Gotcha, must be a solid lid. Lyman engineers put holes in my lid, it doubles as the sifter. Good idea but does make a mess.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
It is. I have an older Thumbler's vibrator...red in color. It's using it's third motor...Quote:
Originally Posted by WarPig1976
Just ordered a pin cleaner.
Show us once it comes? Then maybe a before and after on some brass...
Just did a few hundred 45ACP. Neglected to take a before but just threw in 100 .308 and still have some that need a proper pin cleaning so hope they will show the difference. I think the .308 were cleaned in a walnut shell vibrator and they were anything but well done. IF they do show a discernible difference will post pictures.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
The dirt that came out was unbelievable, absolutly filthy water and little bits of ????. The huge difference is the inside of the 45 is shiny clean.
Just for you Jim. Think the difference is pretty obvious.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._zpsyjvt-1.jpg
Nice job I am looking at 1 ACP case I can just make out the primer is in Rt side against the side of the container 1.5" from the bottom.
When I sonic my cases they have been sized and no primer is present so it pretty much cleans that as well do the rotary tumblers have a Heat capability like the sonics not that you need it but I sometimes use it, the liquid gets pretty warm anyway from the sonic action.
Cinders, the 45's were not worked at all so need to be deprimed etc for the next step. We just wanted to try to see how good it was, am impressed to no end.
We just finished 100 .308's and they were already resized and trimmed to length and they are just as good as the 45's. The big thing is the inside of the cases are clean which you just don't get using a dry medium. From now on I will deprime, then clean then resize and trim to length. A clean case will be easier on the die which is not a big deal but helps.
The one negative is the pins occasionally will stick in the flash hole, not much of a issue in .308 but easier in a .223, I was told rarely you will find a .308 with 2 or 3 stuck in the flash hole, too large for a single pin to stick in it. There is a great magnet designed to pick up the pins and a pull of the handle and they are released. Also a "basket" available to rotate them in using clean water to rinse off the soap/lemi shine used in the tumbler.
Shook them in a towel and will now let them air dry for a couple of days which is overkill IMO. You can dry them in the oven but won't bother with that.
Have two friends that use this method and one has been on my case for a couple years to buy one, my only regret is not getting it in the beginning. Anyone new to reloading and needs a walnut vibrator in excellent shape...I won't ship it but if passing thru the price is right.
Yes I agree, it's about what I expected to see. There's a man here uses SS pins too and I saw his brass at his shop. It all looks new. There's no better description.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
That's what he uses to, this friend that uses SS pins. It's the way to go. You can put the pins into a ziploc bag by turning it inside out, put the magnet inside and then use it. Turn the bag right side out and release the pins. That way they all start inside.Quote:
Originally Posted by enfield303t
Yes I have seen the Magnet advertised of fleabay I may move onto the next step as whilst the sonic is good there is always room for improvement the only thing I really have a problem is getting the minister for finance & war on my side to justify the $200-300/AU to procure one as the reply will be you already have a tumbler also the sonic cleaner hhhhmmmmm its problematic but I will think of an excuse.........!!
I had some case cleaner that you just add to the water in fact I have had it for about 5 years only used it once then got a tumbler you just added it 2 fl/oz to a quart of water soak your cases and presto clean brass so me thinks I will use it in the sonic as the Hornady stuff is $40/AU a container is getting pricey some of Jims philosophy manifesting in me grinching it..
So I measured 40fl/oz of distilled water like I normally do then I thought just @ 2 fl/oz of this cleaner would suffice bbzzzzt wrong? stuff me drunk as soon as I tipped it into the water with the shells they went from toned & dirty to bright brass in about 10 seconds thank god the sonics bath is stainless anyway I also thinks that toning down the amount to 1/2 fl/oz to 40 fl/oz distilled water may be a better ratio.
I am tumbling the brass now but I have my reservations about its integrity now as it was just pretty much instantaneous I was like seriously gob smacked anyway I think seeing as they are only seconds for a 308 and as I was given 1000 once fired Winchester cases I wont miss 40 of them.
We use water, a tiny bit of 'Lemi Shine" and a couple squirts of liquid dish soap so very inexpensive and no dust which is a big advantage.
It has a 3 hour timer and seems that is sufficient however one friend told me he sometimes does it longer, guess starting condition would be taken into consideration.
PS...Lemi Shine that I need is about as scarce as a winning lottery ticket here. One friend gave me a container, he has 4 more and all were purchased in the USA. My son tried to order it on amazon and delivery time was 2 to 5 months???
I originally witnessed a demo using the SS pins and two dozen .50 brass off the military range. The difference was definite.
both... corn cob media to dry out cases after sonic cleaning.
25 years ago I bought a Dillon vibratory cleaner which I always regarded as being very good at cleaning cases. Then about 10 years ago acting on a tip from a friend I bought an ultrasonic cleaner and use 25% solution of common toilet cleaner (no chlorine!). The stuff is dirt cheap and very effective, about 10 minutes in the machine and the cases look like new. They then get drowned twice in a bucket of water and stood to dry on old newspaper. I use that method on my 38 Spl cases and on rifle cases, especially those used for reduced loads. It is reassuring to be able to see the powder in the bottom of a 30-06, as opposed to looking into a black hole.
9mm and 45 ACP just get the vibe treatment.
I wonder what the active ingredient in that is? I wonder what the long term effect will be?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Crab
According to the list on the bottle it contains less than 5% non-ionic tensides, organic acids and colouring agents (available in blue, purple, yellowish and pink!) The tensides are a wetting agent or surfactant. Long term effects? Clean cases! Seriously short term contact with a diluted solution (20-25%) and thorough rinsing afterwards has no apparent ill effects on the cases. My 30-06 cases for the Springfield look like new after 6 reloads and 38 Spl cases easily survive 12 loads before they get junked. They could do more, but 38 Spl cases are more than readily available at my club so I can be choosy.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
There are of course proprietry cleaning agents available at € 5.00 or more per litre as opposed to € 0.70 per litre for bog cleaner. No competion there.
Which sounds like no damage over term. Unlike some other things...that can be used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex Crab
Going on the basis that a picture speaks a thousand words, here's a few thousand words, I think that the difference is noticeable:
They look about new.