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I have a Parker Hale Target Rear Sight to fit the FN FAL or SLR. I acquired this back in the early 1980's when I could own an SLR (Lithgow L1A1 ser. no. AD7007958) Sadly the SLR was handed in in 1988. I have attached some pictures. I thought they may be of interest to people who are lucky enough to still own (and shoot) an SLR.
Hi John, now that's interesting, I have never seen a civilian target rear sight for a L1, thanks for sharing.
Your old rifle was a Singapore contract example by the way (re-stocked in British plastic I'll wager). Many of the UK civilian L1's appear to have originated from this Singapore 1970/71 contract.
I have a former UK civilian owned Singapore contract rifle in my collection, an AD71, it was in virtually new condition when it was unfortunately deactivated.
I've got one of those little blighters, yours is only the second one I've seen
Me neither...... Never seen or heard of one.
Added a bit later: Looking at it closely it does look a bit like something semi experimental. Not the usual finish that you'd expect from P-H with file marks etc etc. You'd expect the zeroing deflection/range scale to be adjustable in order to re-set them. It sounds obvious doesn't it? The range and deflection scale numbers are a bit hit and miss but the vernier scale markings are perfect. Drum heads look like they're straight off a later P-H5 type - so presumably will be the lead screw and click adjustment. Interesting
How was it retained within the dovetail of the rifle KtK? Looks like the screw locks the male part of the dovetail in place by friction.....?
Mind you, the L1A1 was never going to be a competition rifle warranting a P-H sight - and a 1/4 or 1/2 MoA one at that - especially after a few months of service when the articulating TMH would give 1MoA just by opening and closing it!
I have one of the P-H target sights installed on my Aussie L1A1A. It's main benefit to me is the much smaller apertures for informal target shooting off my bench. I think they were used primarily on the Australian competition rifles that were produced in small quantities.
I installed a Hythe sight on my BSA L1A1 and it shoots just as well with the smaller aperture.
Plus one for the Hythe Brian, they certainly tighten up the groups don't they... When you say Lithgow competition rifles, would they be specially factory prepared Semi Autos, as I recall the rare single shot Lithgow Target rifle had some sort of sighting assembly bolted to the left of the receiver ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
Thanks for all the comments. I have only just joined the forum and this was my first post.
As regards the Lithgow SLR, it had coachwood furniture and was purchased from Tom Collins at the London Armoury around 1982. It was in very good condition and I had to strip it down to clean out all the gunk that had been packed into it. I only fitted the target sights for a short while because as Peter said it never was a target rifle. Great fun for knocking down the falling plates though!
Interesting...I've seen pictures of a Belgian FAL that was factory-adapted for target shooting, and they used an aperture sight that was screwed to the side of the body. I assume British/Australian competition rules would have forbidden such a change?
Mrclark303 is correct. I checked Skennerton's little book on the Australian SLR. The Australian target model came with a Central base fitted to the left side of the body by two tapped holes. There was also a plate for the Rawson sight which was also in common use at that time. The TMH has the sight base dovetail milled off.
You can remove the service sight, fill the aperture with Devcon steel filled epoxy and drill an aperture to taste. This method works very well too and doesn't alter the military look of the rifle.
I had a body cover for an FN C2 that had been modified after removal of the original rear sight to take the PH5C. It would slip on any C1 and be within a few inches of zero as soon as it went on. It was a superbly accurate mod but of course time went on and I sold it. This is something I've never seen either...neat.Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Turner
Welcome to Milsurps John and thanks for such an interesting first post!Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Turner
I wonder, I know it was good few years ago now, but do you remember if your Singapore contract L1 was a Police issue example?
It would have had a unique identifier on the left rear of the TMH, starting with SPF.
Those Singapore Police issue L1's and L2's appear to have had very little use indeed.
I can confirm from PH records that several were indeed fitted to L1A1's many years ago but only on range days, as an interest shoot. Bill Smallwood and others were duly disqualified when they demolished the falling plates in record time :lol:
A couple were sold to someone in Australia for his SLR about 5 years ago FYI....Enjoy
ON the down side, it doesn't matter what sight is fitted or the size of the hole, the position of the moon or the breakfast menu that day. The rifle isn't a target rifle and never will be. And while the rear sight base is articulated against the foresight and the barrel, this or any sight mounted to the TMH will not make a jot of difference. Just my opinion based on nothing more than a goodly dollop of experience, a modicum of common sense and what my mum used to call the bleedin' obvious. Just my view of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I wouldn't have thought that there would be much, if any difference between using the PH sight or a Hythe on an issued military rifle, that would have seen 20 plus years of service by the early 1980's ... maybe on the other hand, it would make a difference on a really tight, little used civilian rifle, like Johns ex Singapore contract example..
For some reason there seems to be a resurgence on the SLR again people wanting straight pull options, and a lot appearing out there too for whatever reason. Have some appeared from a far off country???
Can't think of anything worse than shooting an SLR with anything other than that being issued to it on the sights situation but thats just me, as it was my best friend for a while".;)
Ready for a bit of mathematics everyone......? If there was, say, a .010" deflection left and right of the TMH on the body - and there would undoubtedly by a great deal more, even on new production believe me - then just multiply that possible deviation in the form of accumulative error left and right out to a range of 200 yards onwards. Naturally after a few rounds of steady shooting the rifle settles down into the shoulder following recoil and the following reciprocation of the working parts. It's what's called 'settling' or 'normalisation' for obvious reasons*. You can get the feel of it when it assumes its seemingly natural firing feel....., difficult to explain in detail. But then you get up and move - so does the body against the TMH no matter how or do a 100 yard rundown to the falling plates and then..........
There were all sorts of methods of tightening up from inserts, spreading the body a tad, ring punching the axis mech to spring loaded ball bearings and........... But the rifle will just do what recoil and the action tells it to do.
*that's why we always fired a few rounds into the bank prior to range and accuracy testing and where possible always fired from the layer
As for the hole size, that's all very well on a nice manicured range at Tidworth but in the dark or half light in the eerie bush, the bigger the hole you've got, the better if you'll excuse the phrase
Absoblimmin right Peter, shoot it as issued, nothing thereafter ever worked well, including all the various bits bolted to the top cover ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Have you seen the price of the new arrivals on the market Gil, heading north of £3,000!!! ... getting a bit silly really .. I guess its down to supply and demand, after all an L42A1 is only an old military bolt action rifle when all said and told, they go for £9,000 plus!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Agreed Peter, HM Government never bought them for sub MOA paper punching ... But rather for punching enemies of the State, plenty accurate enough for Government work.
John H Turner, if you look at the underside of your sight what number is stamped on the main parts? Mine is numbered '18' It came from the UK a number of years ago, I managed to get it off of that wonderful auction site.
Here's the rare Australian NRA Target Rifle. There is no magazine well and the majority of machining operations to the receiver weren't done, it a huge lump of steel a lot stronger than the L1A1 Body. The problem with them was they were a straight pull rifle and when up against the conventional Omark Target rifles it lost out. About 130 rifles were made in both left and right handed versions.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8dsedqad-1.jpg
I don't recall any other markings on my Lithgow SLR other than serial number, proof marks and Lithgow markings as per "British and Commonwealth FALs". The woodwork was marked SLAZ. I didn't use the PH sights for very long, soon swapped back to the issue version. But at the time I think they only cost about £10 and I just bough up any relevant SLR bits that were on offer. Not sure why I have kept hold of them for so long really.
I have just checked the underside of my sight and it has the number 2.
Regards,
John.
Fascinating Rifles Kev, I was very kindly offered one last year, mulled it over for a good while,(don't know of any in the UK) but the cost would be just too "significant" to overcome, especially when importing was taken into account..Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector
Very interesting and rarely seen rifle...Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector
Does anyone know how much these Parker Hale SLR sights are worth? A dealer recently offered me £80.00.
Regards,
John.
Well, these things are worth what someones prepared to pay, it's certainly rare, but a limited market I would say.Quote:
Originally Posted by John H Turner
Put an advert in the WTS section perhaps..
Better still, get a world market and put it on that auction site. I would agree that the price is the price the bloke with the deepest pockets is prepared to pay. But I think the rarity will come into play with your sight
Thanks for the advice Peter and mrclark303, much appreciated.
Regards,
John.
John,
A good rough guide if it is in good condition would be about £150 GBP. Hope that helps;)
Speaking for myself only; my SLRs are all tight and in specification now with the BSA body lug weld repaired and remachined properly according to the EMERs. I agree that they are all service rifle grade and not tack drivers. However, this isn't the Army and I treat them as I would any high grade break action O/U or S/S shotgun and don't snap them shut without holding back the body lock lever. I learned this at a very early age in the trade and practice it to this day. They've seen their days in the hands of the troops and will be treated with tender loving care as long as I own them. The smaller apertures do help me since I love to shoot iron sights at MR31 bullseyes using a six o'clock hold and I'm blind as a friggin' bat without my stupid, progressive bifocals! My C1A1 clone has the six hole eyepiece as issued and it's zeroed on the 300 meter aperture for that very reason. The Hythe sight will stay on the BSA rifle. The P-H is on my Australian L1A1A as mentioned before but I don't care much for how it looks because I like the service sight look better. Because of the reasons stated by Peter which are very relevant, I reckon if I were going to take up competition shooting again with a 7.62 self loading rifle, it'd be my M1A/M14 on the line with me.
As a side note: has anyone ever used the battle sight on an M16A2/M4? I have to use the long range aperture as the battle sight is like looking through a garbage can with the bottom kicked out. Perfect for running through the bush snap shooting but not much good on bullseyes off the bench.
Mine cost me about £80 - £95. That was a while ago, I was/am the limited market for such trinkets. The other people to direct it at are those dedicated target sight collectors, they may pay more for such a rare official target sight made by Parker Hale in very limited numbers.
Only for low light shooting and then it's more instinctive shooting. We even taught to use the longer range aperture for deliberate shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Dick
I owned one for a while...it's now either in a gov't reference collection, or been smelted...Quote:
Originally Posted by nzl1a1collector