Half cock

I was reading a book the other day (My 2nd pastime) to which I came across a sentence that stated the half cock on the lee enfield action was never meant as a safety.
And that its primary function was to relieve tension of the FP spring rather than leaving the weapon fully cocked also that the weapon could be brought to the ready quickly and reasonably quietly by pulling the striker knob backwards.

I have tried or experimented (empty chamber!) with what happens if the bolt handle is not all the way down when the rifle fires it will drop to the half cocked position. Is the information that I came across correct as to the function of the H/C position. TIA

I think Peter gave us this lecture once upon a time.

Nope........ It is purely a mechanical safety. If you USE it as anything else, then it can fail disasterously. And if something CAN fail, guess what WILL happen.........

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...1/xndkw8-1.jpg

It may not have been the design intent, but an important function of the "half-bent" notch is to catch the striker assembly should it be released by some action other than the trigger being pulled and held. This most commonly occurs if the safety is not fully "on" and then the trigger pulled, allowing the cocking piece to move forward just off the sear nose - but arrested by the safety's "hook". If safety is then moved "off", striker falls and rifle could discharge inadvertently were it not for the sear then catching in the half-bent notch.

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I see exactly what you\re saying Parashooter........ But cutting to the quick, what you're describing is 'mechanical safety' - exactly why it's there........

Agree completely, Captain. Just trying to show the youngsters how the "mechanical safety" function can benefit innocent bystanders!:move eek:

While I don't agree with the practice, when I was younger it was very common to see civilian hunters use the half-bent position on Lee Enfields in the manner described by Cinders.

Their "folklore" reasoning was that safeties are not to be trusted.

My thoughts were if you cannot trust the safety and the sear, why are you hunting with a defective rifle?

I think this was woodsey folklore and adapted practice from the other common hunting rifle, the Winchester 1894, which had no dedicated safety only a half cock and grip safety.

Over the years I have seen all manner of workarounds, and mechanical superstitions to excuse the root cause in nearly every case: poor weapons handling.

We used to see those poor souls, some of whom REALLY ought to have known better, dropping their No2 and L9 Browning hammer down into the half-cock position. It only took a millisecond of distraction and you'd got yourself an ND. One of my bosses was notorious for doing it, sat with it across his lap in the car.

Fwiw appling the 'safety' to a loaded & cocked firearm does NOT render a firearm "safe"

It does! According to the Military Training Regime, especially if there are proceedings to follow. Just think about 'MAKE SAFE'. Comments Gil?

On a historical note, the Magazine Lee Metford Mk I* and II had only the half-cock or bent, having lost the SMLE style safety of the MLM I. Later the MLM Carbine Mk I introduced the cocking piece safety that lasted though MLE production. It would be interesting to see the reasoning that went into removal then reintroduction of the safety.

Rudolph

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

It does! According to the Military Training Regime, especially if there are proceedings to follow. Just think about 'MAKE SAFE'. Comments Gil?

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I am meaning in general, a mechanical safety has no guarantee to be 100% fully functional 100% of the time, so good luck with just applying the 'safety' on a loaded rifle at a range when the RO says "make safe", "make safe" to me means unload the chamber & magazine & if available, insert a chamber flag, just remember members here are not all current or ex-service personnel, so army doctrine does not/should not apply

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Originally Posted by 5thBatt

on a loaded rifle at a range when the RO says "make safe", "make safe" to me means unload the chamber & magazine & if available, insert a chamber flag, just remember members here are not all current or ex-service personnel, so army doctrine does not/should not apply

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Make safe in a service rifle competition in the UK means something slightly different:
Remove the magazine, unload/remove any round from the chamber (if any) and fire the weapon on an empty chamber. Then apply the safety catch and reattach the magazine. The magazine will be assumed to be charged ready for the next phase of the competition.
All done with the rifle pointing at the back stop of the range.

In CF use it is similar but does not reapply the safety as the C7 (AR, M16) series will not allow selection of SAFE unless the hammer is cocked.

Our MAKE SAFE is an UNLOAD as Strangely has it, followed by a LOAD and sights reset to 200m.

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Originally Posted by Strangely Brown

Make safe in a service rifle competition in the UK means something slightly different:
Remove the magazine, unload/remove any round from the chamber (if any) and fire the weapon on an empty chamber. Then apply the safety catch and reattach the magazine. The magazine will be assumed to be charged ready for the next phase of the competition.
All done with the rifle pointing at the back stop of the range.

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Rules do vary from range to range here but i dont recall any that require mags to be removed (might be the case with semi's) but certainly when a rifle is cleared to be removed from the firing line, if you dont have a chamber flag bolts are to be removed

For our service rifle competitions; make safe is bolt open, chamber emptied and a flag put in place.

Ours is; Cease fire & unload, remove bolts ready for inspection prior to removal from the firing line, rifles pointed down range until the R/O physically looks through the bore and says clear to remove bolts are normally not allowed in rifles behind the firing line unless you have a chamber flag in there and the bolt is drawn fully to the rear the Martinees of course always have to be open with a flag.

safe fire arms handling is as much a state of mind as a mechanical contrivance on a rifle.

range handling and hunting handling are like comparing apples and oranges.

why not remove the bolt and lock it in one safe and lock the rifle in another safe, perhaps on another planet and dont possess any ammo...just in case. this mindless one upmanship does nothing to help understand how to operate the enfield safely.

range safety is the set of rules you agree to play by when on the range.

hunting may be the same set of rules or another set...

the rules are in place because idiots dont know what they are doing. safely handling a fire arm is a mind set that starts with a clear understanding of the capabilities of your weapon. stoopit idiots will always endager others no mater what the rules say.

I've been to a range where you must remove the bolt from the fire arm , unload it, and put a red flag in the chamber, step back from your weapon behind a designated white line and hold both arms in the air and are not allowed to go neer the rifle until the RO says so. thats how stoopit some idiots are. vendors even sell wool lined pouches for bolts so its not just lawyers who capitalise on idiocy. I know of a range officer who insisted on putting a rod down the barrel. If you refused to allow him to rod your gun you were invited to leave the range.You could not convince him that it damaged the muzzle and rifling. Or rather "safety" took priority over damage to the rifle. This jerk actualy tried to get Bullet traps set next to each table so you would put the barrel in it while you essentialy disassebled your rifle and waited for him to strut over and damage it further with his phalic rod. That idea was nix'd. it got so bad that we boycotted the range while he RO'd it. He made such a fool of himself during several competitions that within 7 months he was DX'd. too safe is just as bad as not safe enough.

I have always embraced Darwins theory on stupidity.

I carry a loaded enfield on half cock and pointed in a safe direction, without my finger on the trigger. havent had a missfire so fare but again , its pointed in a safe direction just in case. I am very conscieous of whom I am around when it comes to safe handleing of fire arms. zero tollerance for fools and idiots.