Restoring a reasonable Crest (not faking) a Military Rifle or Pistol

Anyone do crest/mum restorations on Mausers or Ariskas or maybe Mannlicher 1905 pistols? I know these arms are not highly collectable generally speaking but they would look nice and be enchanced with a restored crest. I am going to try to etch a crest into my old 1896 dated M1893 Mauser not for fakery but merely to bring back some of its prior glory and history. We have had so many advances in etching that I was thinking that someone might be out there that does this or at least might have some pointers on doing it myself.

Sorry but I see that as faking . The Japanese put the original mum on the rifle , that is how it was made . If you put one on it is not an original , Not Japanese , it is fake . Same as putting matching numbers back on a bolt , that does " restore " the rifle to how it was when it was made , but it is still fake . That is why original rifle bring more money .

That's how I see it too, it's an embellishment of a marking. If the original is faint, then so be it. As soon as you restrike a marking, I'm no longer interested in that piece.

For me it is no problem. I look at these guns for their historic value, not investment value although it might increase value to folks who do living history to make it more authentic for the period. Collector types would not be interested with it with a ground away crest or mum in any event. This Mauser was arsenal reconditioned for another era and after that got the stock butchered as a sporter. I can remember in the 70's no one would touch a refinished or reworked rifle....but now people have changed in their view. People restore cars and airplanes all the time with original style markings and paint and bring these vehicles back to close to their original state. The replica military gun market is now HUGE. A now true gun "restorers" get huge bucks for mint condition restorations (look at the work Turnbull does). Times have changed. Living history folks are not collectors in so much as guns they use in living history are not museum queens because they of course would not want to cause them wear and tear. However, they still want guns that look as close as possible to how they looked in reality. Mulsurps can be about collecting it is also can be about shooting, repairing, restoring, or just prettying up a gun. I want to put this crest on totally for my own purposes and enjoyment, not to fool anyone.

Take it to this guy. Custom Firearm Engraving Services, Custom Gun Stock Engraving Patterns, Pistol Engraving

This is the kind of work he does FAL

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Originally Posted by Vincent

Take it to this guy. Custom Firearm Engraving Services, Custom Gun Stock Engraving Patterns, Pistol Engraving

This is the kind of work he does FAL

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Thanks. The stock and assorted parts came in this evening. Going to put everything together and see how it looks and then start the quest for the crest.

Whether it is for you personally or not, someone in the future is going to be ripped off by that fake crest. This is not restoring a car, it is faking a rifle. You can "restore" a rifle to a certain point without hurting it's authenticity but that only includes replacing broken parts, cleaning it up etc. Re-engraving metal goes way over the line. I personally do historical presentations and try to get my rifles as close to what the soldier would have had. I use repro slings, cleaning rods, etc but also explain to them that they are reproductions and the reason why. Any true historian would likely be horrified by faking a crest. Faking things destroys the value of all. When people lose confidence that what they are looking at, they are unwilling to pay what the item is worth. Cars are the one exception to this so not even a close comparison. Selling such an item without disclosing the truth is also fraud, a criminal offense.

Some of you self-righteous guys are starting to grind my gears. What BS! I told you guys the other receiver markings have been defaced beyond redemption or other then ground up restoration and this is an original Spanish Mauser that had the crest to begin with. The freaking stock is 1895 Chilean and even has the G-D stamp. I think maybe I will use a decal instead. This gun is not a collectors item never will be. What goofyness, you guys are getting all emotional without thinking like Liberals over Trump. I have been a gun collector/enthusiast for over 50 freaking years and have never cheated anyone and deeply resent your suggestions that I would ever allow something to get passed off on anyone. The cost of doing even an half-arse job would be over the value of the rifle.
I am pretty disappointed with the quality of most of the responses on this subject. You guys needs to chill the freaking out and get off your INCREDIBLY HIGH HORSES. And no, if I chose to have a first class restoration done on this rifle with all the bells and whistles (cost prohibitive of course on something like this) restoring the crest to the rifle would NOT be unethical. I would be bringing history back to life. I have seen beautiful restorations to mint condition of many types of firearms and they stand on their own, of course, the cost of restoration is usually only useful for rarer type or special historical weapons and the condition is usually so good the weapons can't pass for originals anyways. I am not going to bother responding to this gross, arrogant, overreaction of "experts" who assume other folks are stupid. I normally don't respond like this but these pompous answers are absurd.

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

if I chose to have a first class restoration done on this rifle with all the bells and whistles (cost prohibitive of course on something like this) restoring the crest to the rifle would NOT be unethical.

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Sorry but it IS unethical. Not sure where your ethics come from but faking military stuff is considered ethical by no one I know. And like I said, doesn't matter if you don't do anything with it, the next guy might. And a Spanish rifle without the crest is the norm. The history of these pieces is that the crests were removed by the Franco government, this is not a bubba deal and wasn't done by the guy that cut the stock. That is it's historical value, putting a fake crest on it is NOT bringing history back to life, it's erasing it. Because of Franco, these rifles with the original crest are much less common that those with none. I spent 3 years trying to find one with a crest. And excuse me for trying to protect the value of my Spanish rifle with crest. Ask everyone how they feel about Mitchell's Mausers and their "restorations".

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

Some of you self-righteous guys are starting to grind my gears. What BS!

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

What goofyness, you guys are getting all emotional

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

I am pretty disappointed with the quality of most of the responses on this subject

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

You guys needs to chill the freaking out and get off your INCREDIBLY HIGH HORSES.

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

I am not going to bother responding to this gross, arrogant, overreaction of "experts"

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This is typical of people that come here and ask for opinion and then don't get what they wanted to hear.

We won't miss you...

The biggest reason people in the collecting community have to be concerned with trying to make items 'correct' or 'restoring' firearms (and replicas etc.) is that you might know what you did, does the next person? It is also bubba'ing in its own way as you are still removing the history of that particular rifle. In the case of the Spanish mauser the crest was removed in service, putting a crest back on it is removing the actual history of the rifle for what you 'think' the history should be.

Say you go and figure out all the things required to make a Lee Enfield sniper. Get some authentic parts, learn about the proper ways to attach them etc. and the end result is a rifle which is very close/near exact to a real enfield sniper rifle. You sell the rifle and pass on it as a reproduction. The next guy gets it and he might not be so honest, maybe they learn a couple points you missed and makes it even closer to the real thing and then sells it off as a original. Maybe you die and when it gets sold off someone thought it was a original and sells it as a original, whoever buys it is then convinced that it is one especially after paying such a large sum of money for it.

You asked question, just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean they are wrong. Collectors are concerned with preserving history, not re-writing it. What you want to do is re-write the history of the firearm, at which point you might as well call yourself a firearms owner not a collector.

The other problem with "restoring" is it makes incorrect rifles . It has really made it hard to tell what should be what and what is really original . Plus it rips off new collectors . Look at K-98k's , half the rifle out there now have incorrect parts on them , making it really hard to tell what is real . A lot of Type -99 rifle are now turning up with the wrong stocks and other parts on them that are wrong or do not even belong on that rifle . Since most of the Japanese records are gone , observation was the only way to tell what parts SHOULD be on a rifle . People have screwed up Gew-88 rifles so bad that now the incorrect rifles are being used to tell what is " correct" , making most Gew-88 information worthless .

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Originally Posted by oldhoodoo1

What goofyness, you guys are getting all emotional without thinking like Liberals over Trump.

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I would add that political comments are not allowed on this forum. One of my favorite aspects. Tom