the quality of French Police Marksmen!

You may have seen in yesterday's news that a French Police marksmen accidentally discharged his rifle during the President Francois Hollande's speech.
Apparently he decided to change position mid speech and ended up shooting two people with one accidental discharge! (both injured, one in the thigh and the other in the calf) Apparently the safety was off :banghead:
It seem's to me that there was a lack of basic " Safety lesson 1" don't walk around with a loaded rifle.:bash:
Doesn't say much for the quality of training

More so why have you got your finger through the trigger guard if they were getting up from the prone position its not as if they were in a war zone......or picking the rifle up for that matter

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 30Three

a lack of basic " Safety lesson 1" don't walk around with a loaded rifle

---

Absolutely wrong. If you're a civilian perhaps an unloaded rifle is fine but when in a paramilitary situation the rifle must be loaded and ready for use at an instant's notice. Yes, the time it takes to cock it can mean the difference between life and death. As pointed out, keep your booger picker off the trigger and fire control is set to safe. Hand should be in the operating position...

It's true I'm am not ex military. But I was wondering why he had to move position during the time the President was actually speaking. I would expect the area to have been inspected and the best vantage points chosen prior to the VIP arriving. There is always more than one marksman on hand so if you absolutely have to move; it would be easy to contact your colleagues and inform them to watch your designated area while you move.
I agree that in a battle situation it would be different. But this is a protection assignment; sure you have to be ready; but it does seem unproffessional to me.

There would not be just one sniper protecting the president there would be a cell with a cell leader the point is it did discharge why the investigation will find the cause and the sniper may now have 2 ar*s holes the second being torn by his cell leader.
Things happen they have a fairly stressful job and sometimes things just go south thank goodness no one was killed imagine how the sniper would have felt then...... Hope they are all ok.

Apparently the injured got a visit from the President. Bet that made their day:super:

We were taught in the Army Cadets that a firearm should always be pointing in a safe direction, regardless of whether or not you think that it is loaded, and that the only time that a firearm should be pointed at a person is if you intend to kill that person.

This may not be a matter of pointing, but a failure of muzzle and trigger control while moving.

While not pointing in civilian use is a good rule, in military use pointing is part of the use of a weapon.

Every vehicle that approaches a checkpoint in a hot zone has at least one MG trained on it for the duration of the visit.

And agreed with BAR, an unchambered weapon is like having no weapon at all when events unfold.

Wasn't there a period during the 1970s/early 80s when soldiers on guard duty outside bases on the U.K. mainland were not permitted to have either magazines or loaded magazines attached to their weapon?

France. Perhaps it was a MAS 36 (no saftey).:D

I was thinking the same thing. But on another note, if he was a marksman, he may have been in an elevated position with the rifle trained on the crowd the entire time.

Design
The FR-F2 is an upgrade from the earlier FR F1 sniper rifle. It was manufactured by MAS (an abbreviation of Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne - one of several government-owned arms factories in France). MAS now belongs to GIAT Industries, now NEXTER.

The rifle barrel is thermally shielded along a considerable part of the barrel by a polymer shroud. It uses a different bipod-stock configuration from its predecessor, which is built just ahead of the receiver. It uses 7.62×51mm NATO ammunition, and is equipped with a scope, French army standard issue is either an APX L806 or SCROME J8 (Army) or Nightforce NXS (Air force) or Schmidt & Bender 6×42 mil-dot (Navy). The rifle is also issued as part of the FÉLIN infantry combat system outfitted with a Sagem Sword Sniper 3-in-1 optic, which serves as a telescopic sight, thermal weapon sight, and laser rangefinder. The FR F2 utilizes the same bolt design as the older, outdated MAS-36 infantry rifle.

Edward Fox would have done better. ;)

French Bolt rifles do not have a safety. Oddly enough they were carried unloaded even during war. They were loaded when engaging the enemy.

A sniper does not have the time to load when ready to fire. I wouldn't think they would have the time in the jungles of Indochina either.

This was a case of careless handling, but certainly not the first of its kind. NYPD ESU had a bad run of accidental discharges about 5 years or so ago. Including a sniper squeezing off a round that ricocheted off of buildings in Manhattan and was found a few blocks away.

Someone was telling me last year, that I happened to meet, that they had gone to a Clay Pigeon shoot in order to try it out and see if it was something that they may like to take up as a sport. The chap was telling me that this was his first experience of the sport and that he and others were alarmed that another shooter present thought it perfectly acceptable to wave a loaded shot gun around which included pointing it at people. The chap went on to tell me that the individual concerned was challenged about his gun handling/gun safety by others present and basically the response that they got was "What's the problem? The safety is on!".


While there may be some instances where it may be necessary to point a loaded firearm at persons such as in a warzone, clearly a clay pigeon shoot isn't one of them.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:19 PM ----------

[/COLOR]

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Flying10uk

We were taught in the Army Cadets that a firearm should always be pointing in a safe direction, regardless of whether or not you think that it is loaded, and that the only time that a firearm should be pointed at a person is if you intend to kill that person.

---

Blimey F10, your Army Cadet Unit must have been based in a rough area ...

---------- Post added at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:27 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

Current French Sniper system

Design
The FR-F2 is an upgrade from the earlier FR F1 sniper rifle. It was manufactured by MAS (an abbreviation of Manufacture d'armes de Saint-Étienne - one of several government-owned arms factories in France). MAS now belongs to GIAT Industries, now NEXTER.

The rifle barrel is thermally shielded along a considerable part of the barrel by a polymer shroud. It uses a different bipod-stock configuration from its predecessor, which is built just ahead of the receiver. It uses 7.62×51mm NATO ammunition, and is equipped with a scope, French army standard issue is either an APX L806 or SCROME J8 (Army) or Nightforce NXS (Air force) or Schmidt & Bender 6×42 mil-dot (Navy). The rifle is also issued as part of the FÉLIN infantry combat system outfitted with a Sagem Sword Sniper 3-in-1 optic, which serves as a telescopic sight, thermal weapon sight, and laser rangefinder. The FR F2 utilizes the same bolt design as the older, outdated MAS-36 infantry rifle.

---

That Cinders is NOT a handsome rifle, it really does look like a MAS36 that's been modified by committee

It looks very much built on a price point.

Or someone had the requirement to only use current weapon stocks for the conversion.

The MAT49 proving unsuitable, perhaps it was either that or a St. Etienne Revolver with an optic rail in the selection trials.

I wouldn't mind owning a FR-F1 or FR-F2. The MAS-36 is built like a tank so I could see why they re-used the receiver. The effective range is 800m so a modern sniper it is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrclark303

Blimey F10, your Army Cadet Unit must have been based in a rough area ...

---

No, but you got "all sorts of individuals" joining the Army Cadets and the instructors had to be strict about weapon safety, for obvious reasons. Most of the adult instructors that I came into contact with were ex military and so I assumed that they knew what they were talking about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capt14k

The MAS-36 is built like a tank so I could see why they re-used the receiver.

---

Although they appear the same at first glance the FR-F1 receiver is not the same as the MAS-36 as it has thicker walls, is longer and the top of the left side is shaped differently. If you see a picture of them side by side the difference is striking. Tom

I have never fired an FR-F1, but I have fired the MAS 36 on a number of occasions, a rather individual beast, but an important rifle non the less, involved in many of the pivitol events of the 20th Century. Mainly on the loosing side unfortunately...

The FR does look a little past its sell by date and has looks only a mother could love, anyone ever used one??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by oldpaul

Although they appear the same at first glance the FR-F1 receiver is not the same as the MAS-36 as it has thicker walls, is longer and the top of the left side is shaped differently. If you see a picture of them side by side the difference is striking. Tom

---

You are correct the FR-G1 is the one that used the MAS-36 receivers. Which I wouldn't mind having one of them either.

That looks like the offspring of a MAS 36 and a Hi-Point carbine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capt14k

I wouldn't mind owning a FR-F1 or FR-F2. The MAS-36 is built like a tank so I could see why they re-used the receiver. The effective range is 800m so a modern sniper it is not.

---

Not only that, but is has horizontally locking lugs which are said to be more conducive to accuracy than vertically locking, if one is speaking of two lugs. Rear locking lugs at that too. It's a like a Citroen DS of the small arms world!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Absolutely wrong. If you're a civilian perhaps an unloaded rifle is fine but when in a paramilitary situation the rifle must be loaded and ready for use at an instant's notice. Yes, the time it takes to cock it can mean the difference between life and death. As pointed out, keep your booger picker off the trigger and fire control is set to safe. Hand should be in the operating position...

---

Exactly, you should move with a round ready to fire in the type of situation that is described, might be impossible to chamber a round quick enough if things started to go south. The issue is keeping your finger OFF the trigger.

I am sure the cop will spend the rest of his years on traffic detail.

I don't know what french humour is like but in australia he would be dealing with jokes at his expense for literally years.

In Aus snipers over an ale after a hard days practicing trigger control would be a bit like "Stupid civies do not know how to dodge a bullet."

We have Quality Police too. We're talking highly trained Tactical Operator level.

Cop Shoots Self in Foot - YouTube

It's all part of the presentation to the kids showing them how dangerous guns can be, even when unloaded. What I find curious is that no one moves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aragorn243

It's all part of the presentation

---

No, that guy really shot himself. He tried to sue Glock, and he tried sueing the DEA for releasing the tape which he claims they did and that it ruined his career.
Last I heard he works for James Yeager at Tactical Response....:madsmile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by WarPig1976

it ruined his career.

---

He did that by joining up in the first place.

Perhaps he should team up with that French sniper and they can practice together their AD's or ND's their choice! :madsmile: