Came across this photo of an M60 gunner with the Royal Australian Regiment in Vietnam.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0NV20M60-1.jpg
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Came across this photo of an M60 gunner with the Royal Australian Regiment in Vietnam.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0NV20M60-1.jpg
No sling so it wont get snagged in the brushes, small starter belt to keep their heads down whilst some one else peels the full belt off you and I reckon he would need all 3 water bottles + carrying that thing in the tropics they were not a light item I picked one up once and thought jeez very heavy. Nice mix of weapons an SLR in the background some M-16's
Perhaps something like this would have been better for them if it had been available.
https://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&r...S6-B0yC46tdBmQ
I think the M60 was selected based first on the need for a belt fed support MG and second, equipment standardisation with the Americans.
I have to say, the people I have spoken too who have used them in anger haven't been overly complimentary Cinders.
My B/inlaw went on an asian holiday care of our Govt and said the M-60 would be lucky to get through a 250 rnd belt without a few stoppages, they took his Owen off him gave him an F-1 it rusted really well in the first 24hrs he said it was a POS swapped out of it so finished his tour with a L2A1 bit heavier but he liked it.
I just noticed the guy behind him is also carrying another belt would he be the No.2 on the gun!
Would be interesting to see that date then you could(?) identify the Battalion. Those OG shirts were brilliant. Made from a light cotton that washed easily and dried super-fast. Just a bit lighter weight material than the strides. Looks like some '44 pattern webbing there too and a smoke grenade on belt - just below his Bulova(?) wristwatch.
You missed the FFD taped to the barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
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Somewhere in one of his books, Skennerton says that the M60 was selected over the FN-MAG because the Yanks successfully 'wined and dined' the Brigadier who was sent to assess both for the selection committee. As I recall, from Skennerton, the bugger went to the US first and that was that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
---------- Post added at 09:25 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------
True. I still have one tucked away amongst my old kit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
We didn't have slings on our rifles at Battalion level if I remember correctly. The sling loop on the barrel was removed, no slings
I think it's taped to the bipod, it wouldn't last through the first burst taped to the barrel, specially right there at the gas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
I had an M60 issued in Canungra that had a five digit number, no doubt it was an RVN survivor. It had a hard time with the plastic blanks, but that's no measure. The three water bottles was not unusual, you need water in you, the stuff in the jungle can't be trusted. The weight doesn't matter. We too would remove slings when noise mattered most. You're supposed to have the weapon in hand anyway... Their rifle section had an M60, two M16s for the lead scout and the section commander and the rest were SLR. I think you'd find the man foreground has three water bottles on his belt and one on the ruck that you see. More is better. They get lighter as the day goes on...
My wife is in Australia at the moment and she emailed me last week to tell me she'd seen a sign in N Qld pointing to - of all places - the dreaded Canungra. She'd obviously heard me mention it in my nightmares with mossies and midges as big as plates that hated poms. I think it's time to go back for a visit with my old pal from 7RAR
But on the early M-60's that 8 RAR had and I saw for the first time, none of us really knew the mechanicals of them. I (early GPMG/L7 trained) went on my 1st class course with Lauri Taggart (.30 M1919 and OHF Bren trained) and asked the course Chief Instructor if we could do a farmiliarisation intro with the M60 but they didn't have any. The most we got was the then 'new' M-16's (we were armed with early AR15's at the time) and the F1 plus the usual stuff. Nope....., they didn't have one that we could use as a trade testing example!
You are right. We taped them there on the M60 and on the butt stock on the SLR back in the day. One had on the webbing as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Better tell the flock Paul and BAR....... FFD = First Field Dressing. A sort of big heavy duty bandage/dressing for, well....., everything! Also known to the poms as a Shell Dressing
Cinders, do Australian Vietnam Veterans generally speak much about their Vietnam experiences or even openly admit to being a Vietnam Veteran, nowadays? I believe that Australian service personnel were withdrawn around 1972, about a year or so before the end of the war. In the Northern hemisphere it still doesn't seem to be well known that Australia made a valuable contrition in America's efforts in Vietnam.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------
I know what they're talking about now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
No Merv only told me snippets but in typical style he said they were stonked one night he and his mate took immediate cover under a parked truck as it was the closest thing near by. After the rounds had stopped falling they got out from under the truck to turn a nice shade of grey he said as they discovered their cover had been a truck loaded with 'munitions. He said they would not have known about it had the truck stopped a round, reckons they had a few beers after that. I do not pry into what he may have seen or done another from him once they were going down a road and went past an APC that had taken a direct hit to the front glacis from a re-coiless rifle it was full of troops the back doors had been blown off and it was rather a messy sight in his words. I just asked about weapons and these are the only stories he has told me, he went back a few years ago he had to go back he reckons and surprised the guy at the Cu Chi tunnels range by his showing how to use an AK47 said you do not forget things funnily enough.
I never ever ask a veteran about the stuff they have done if they tell me straight off the bat fair call but I find it disrespectful to pry into a thing that I have no right to do, the only thing I am sad about is not getting to know my father enough to learn of his years o/s in N.G and surrounds as he remained a solitary aloof figure in our household until the day he died.
I think people are starting to show pride in thier service in vietnam here. You see the odd bumper sticker with a picture of a service ribbon and vietnam or the older "vietnam veteren and proud of it" sticker.
Through work i see inside a lot of peoples houses and you see a heaps of pictures of people in uniform. Mostly male relatives from ww1 and 2 (+ 2 or 3 WAAF, womens land army etc) but you also see children currently serving and the people themselves from thier own service.
Overall it seems military service is seen as a positive thing here.
The one thing I forgot too, there was a small side drum available for 50 rds that clipped on. Just enough to give initial cover fire while the rest took cover. I smashed mine flat doing ops of some kind, this guy threw his away I should think. One less thing to fiddle with...you can't move around with a great long belt hanging off you...anyway. 220 rds is huge...Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
The side drums weren't the best things ever invented as I'm sure BAR will agree. The best thing, and something that the designers could have capitalised on was to put the belt into a '44 water bottle pouch and clip that to the gun via the 44 pattern belt clip thing that seemed almost made to clip to the gun. Soft and flexible and never a jamb so far as I recall. But no! Someone invented the box!
They were neat but could be a pain. Their best feature was probably on the range when you shot single man operator and the belt had something to run across.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
We didn't have those, I heard it worked though. I just kept my belts at about 100 rds...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
During my time our C6 GPMG never had a side bag or box in the dismounted role, so they were carried as BAR mentioned.
The C9 LMG had a hard plastic clip on box that held 200 rounds of 4BIT as factory shipped in black boxes. Green boxes were for blank and were shorter fore to aft to prevent accidental recycling with a ball loading. Good idea there actually, very good.
The plastic boxes would rattle even when full, so in 2004 some of us were issue soft cloth bag/boxes that held 200 rounds.
The worked well enough if you laid the belts in right and didn't squish the bag up too much.
I grandfathered my set down in 2006 to our section gunner when he took the gun and I became a C7/M203 grenadier. I lost track of them after he was killed and the war carried on.
Around the same time we had these little 50 bags, like a little ammo purse that started arriving, no idea about where those came from, likely pilfered from the US guys. They were less reliable than the 200 round bags and generally only carried for show in safe areas like KAF airbase.
We always had to travel armed, even at KAF which meant personal rifle/MG and at least 1 magazine. Lucky guys and WOGS got pistols to take to meals and showers.
Hauling a 200 round belt box as a gunner to supper was a nuisense and these little 50 rnd purses were a god send.
Outside the wire though, most guys had the smooth feeding 200 rnd hard box on there. No time for stoppages when the gun needed to run...
That was the complaint with Thompson drums too, and they quit using them. That and the clumsiness and damage prone. The C9 drums were fine when used once. In the early days we'd be reusing them and that was worse... E never had any for the C6 though. I did see various countries that had boxes or belt drums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sentryduty
I have never and would never pry into or ask a Veteran about their service but I have had interesting conversations occasionally with Veterans and I leave it to them to decide what they are happy to talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
In my father's case, he had no military service but experienced war at first hand, courteous of the Luftwaffe. At the end of the war he was left with serious hearing damage caused by being dive bombed and what "experts" today would probably call Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. One of the symptoms was recurring nightmares which lasted well into the 1970s. The only help which he received from the medical profession was to "look after" his wrecked ears which the hearing couldn't be repaired. There was absolutely nothing offered or suggested for his mental injuries, by the medical profession. In my father's case the one thing which I believed helped him recover from the P.T.S.D. was talking about his experiences to his family in detail; my father was happy to talk about what happened to him and I was happy to listen.
I know it's going well off the subject but you DO remember the funny and odd ball things and while someones death is never - what's the word I'm looking for - it soon gets pushed to the back of the brain. It's a squaddies way of getting on with it and the sooner it's done, the sooner we're out of the bloody place. One thing that I'll never forget is pre Christmas 1967 in Australia when all the Christmas duties were being divvied up. The OC/ Adjutant/RSM/CSM's decided that all the nasho's (the NS men), singlies (the single blokes) would be doing them while the rest of the blokes, the regulars and the married blokes buggered off home! But you only remember the good laughs and good blokes - and never forget....., the good advice
Kiwis in Vietnam also used the M60, even though our issue MG was the L7 (MAG). The reason was to maintain compatability with the US troops which would ensure a good supply of maintenance parts. The NZ Army put their M60's up for tender in the late 1980's. They were mostly in their transit chests with spare barrel and I bought one at the time (about NZ$1200 as I recall). The guns were all in used but serviceable condition. Only a small number stayed with collectors in NZ, the majority being exported to UK for deactivation or to the US as parts kits. A good mate of mine was an M60 gunner and used to enjoy the nostalgia of shooting mine on odd occasions. I had a few mates who served in Vietnam and the could be divided into two groups, those who were traumatised by the experience and didn't talk about it, and those who loved every minute of it. A couple of them have died of cancer (Agent Orange) but I am meeting up with my M60 mate this weekend for a reunion shoot. I have attached a picture of me running a few blanks through my gun at an air show a few years ago.Attachment 81613
There's a thing......... I don't remember ever seeing an M60 BFA barrel.
I do remember the gas system that I'd never seen before and at the time, nobody could truly or honestly explain, even at Bandiana! Of course, it's a cupped piston system that operates at a constant volume. As I understand it now, it was a competitor to the GPMG system. In short - and anyone in the universe feel free to correct me - the GPMG had enough clicks on the gas regulator to accommodate any 762 factory ammo from virtually anywhere under any depressive or oppressive climatic condition in the world. The M60 achieved the same result in that the piston cup would only accept a set amount of gas, sufficient to operate the gun before it blocked off the supply.
Good job I'm not teaching this as to be honest, I never REALLY understood the GPMG system until I was told that I was to teach it the following morning to an advanced GPMG SF course. That brought on the pains............. So I cut two shot-out barrels up and brought the gas regulator assemblies on the barrels home and sectionalised them. Phew................
Those black plastic blanks with the aluminum base...Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
The one I was issued used a live barrel and the BFA, I just forget exactly what it looked like, I think it was the standard US issue for M60.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I removed the flash hider from my spare barrel and bored it out from the rear, then made a stainless steel BFA that was a push fit in the bore for about 2" with a 3mm blind hole. I drilled 4 holes around the head which intersected the 3mm hole and lined up with the slots in the flash hider. When the flash hider was refitted it held the head of the BFA beteewn the barrel and the shoulder in the flash hider. That meant my spare barrel could always be converted back for ball ammo, and there was no direct muzzle emissions for safety in re-enacting. The black plastic blanks were Aussie manufacture.
They were what we had...long story attached to that too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Woodsy
I thought some of you would enjoy the original color version of this image and the caption information provided on the back. This imaged scanned at the National Archives and Record Administration, Archives II, College Park, MD., visual records section.
2RAR....., blimey, there's a Battalion that you never really heard a lot about. By '70 they too must have been heavily diluted with young Nashos....... He's certainly not a young Nasho though. I wonder where he is now......, retired and having a well deserved rest hopefully Notice the little sewn on 'rising sun'; on the gunners shirt sleeve. They also had a little rounded brass 'AUSTRALIA' on the epaulets - but not on ops of course
Just as an afterthought, how did those plastic blanks fare with machine guns? I don't ever remember the poms having them but do recall seeing them on the training areas. How were they when chambered in a red hot MG barrel?
Funny you'd ask...I know you've heard of double feed before. How about 5? I had a problem with the gun not cycling and it would fire, fail to cycle the action so bolt forward. I'd cock the gun and fire...same thing. I finally dropped the butt, opened the cover and looked in at the mess created. I cleared the feedway and pulled the barrel out to find 5 fired, smashed rounds all jammed together in the chamber. I don't recall having too much trouble with them sticking because of the open bolt, but the SLRs reported things when they got the rifles good and hot. They didn't seem to like lots of wet either, not that there's any in Canungra. They were nice to carry though. I'm sure others mileage may vary...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Strange the things one keeps I found a few boxes of the blanks in one of my trunks on a clean out only yesterday, all nice and snug in the cardboard boxes with the red ribbon still tied around them.
Dick
I have a very few now in the cartridge collection from those days.
WHAT! No OWEN GUN!
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And they replaced it with the FN MAG didn't they?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul S.
I think that all of our Owens had gone by then! The last I saw were in Malaya in 68 or so!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
The only Owen I have ever seen and handled is the example at Warminster Peter, very surprised at the remarkably compact nature of the piece.
At the small arms museum in lithgow, there are a couple of deactivated pieces you can handle. There's a picture of my wife holdinbg an owen in one hand and an F88 in the other around here somewhere =DQuote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
But of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by BushyFromOz