BSA P-14

I know that almost all P14'S were made in the US, so how did this rifle come to be. It is sporterized, has a 4 digit serial #, is stamped Made in England on the receiver.Did they put these together from parts or redo existing rifles? Is there any way to find out who originally built this gun?

As a side I originally bought this rifle for a build but because it was drilled and tapped decided to try it first. First group with factory ammo was 1 inch so now it is being used for hunting with my own reloads and half inch groups. Don't think it's worth wrecking something that shoots that well.

I think that it will be necessary to post some pictures, please, in order to give members a full understanding of exactly what you have.

Here are a few pictures and will take a couple more

This is the serial #

It looks like R.S.A. to me rather than B.S.A.. I can't think what R.S.A. would stand for but no doubt someone else does.

I believe these were sporterized by BSA from P14's but not built by them. The receivers were scrubbed and renumbered during the process so you may never know who made it. The 2 holes in the rear of the receiver just forward of the bolt handle tells me that it most likely wore a parker hale peep sight when it was first converted. I'm not sure when they were done though, could have been between the wars or post WWII. Someone else here will know for sure. Bill

Thanks for the info

RSA = Republic of South Africa. Guessing.

Back in the day BSA had quite a business sporterizing old military surplus rifles into hunting rifles. The 'RSA' is just the BSA either lightly struck in the first place or partially scrubbed off through time and use. Here is a photo of the exact same type of sporter just with the BSA intact.

BSA Model E in Sporting Rifle Forum Archives Forum

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

I believe these were sporterized by BSA from P14's but not built by them. The receivers were scrubbed and renumbered during the process so you may never know who made it. The 2 holes in the rear of the receiver just forward of the bolt handle tells me that it most likely wore a parker hale peep sight when it was first converted. I'm not sure when they were done though, could have been between the wars or post WWII. Someone else here will know for sure. Bill

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They were D&T'd for the then ubiquitous Lyman 48 I believe.

Another one here

Almost certain sure no P14 were stamped RSA in the Republic of South Africa, which only existed since 1961. Especially if it is still 303. We never had many P14 in any case. They would be stamped with the British arrow in a U, which was the military ownership stamp.

Probably slightly off centre stamped BSA.

I can see where the some material was removes from the receiver ring to permit ejection of a longer cartridge. May I enquire as to the caliber of the rifle? I believe there are ways to recover the original markings and serial number on the receiver even as scrubbed as that one.

--fjruple

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Originally Posted by Surpmil

They were D&T'd for the then ubiquitous Lyman 48 I believe.

Another one here

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Well I'll be. The hole spacing seemed a little wide for a Lyman and with it being done in England I assumed they would have used a Parker-Hale. Proven wrong again! Bill

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Originally Posted by fjruple

I believe there are ways to recover the original markings and serial number on the receiver even as scrubbed as that one.

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I was watching a television documentary a month or two back concerning a Mafia killing during the Prohibition period (in Chicago I think?). Interestingly, the U.S. Police still had the Thompson SMGs which were used and the Police got them out for the documentary so that they could be filmed. The Police officer went on to explain that the serial number on at least one had been removed, presumably in the belief that it would make the weapon untraceable, but the Police had done some sort of procedure to "recover" the serial number from the weapon. He didn't get into details of how the serial number had been recovered, only that it had been removed but the Police had recovered it.

I think they use something like X-Ray crystallography. This shows up the different (distorted) crystal structure in the metal beneath where the stamping was done. Machine-engraved markings produce MUCH less substrate distortion and that is why they are "discouraged" in most manufacturing countries.

Note the recent use of serial numbers that have been marked using some sort of oscillating pointed tool that "pecks" the number into just about any surface and, yes, it will leave "shadows" in the base metal.

Machine-engraved markings seem to be quite common on "military" goodies, though.

Welding over the original numbers may "obliterate" them, BUT, the "signature" of a"weld-over" is even harder to disguise than a deep "linish". You may not be able to read all or any of the original markings, but it does draw the crabs, somewhat.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I was watching a television documentary a month or two back concerning a Mafia killing during the Prohibition period (in Chicago I think?). Interestingly, the U.S. Police still had the Thompson SMGs which were used and the Police got them out for the documentary so that they could be filmed. The Police officer went on to explain that the serial number on at least one had been removed, presumably in the belief that it would make the weapon untraceable, but the Police had done some sort of procedure to "recover" the serial number from the weapon. He didn't get into details of how the serial number had been recovered, only that it had been removed but the Police had recovered it.

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If these Thompsons were original Colt built Thompsons there is a hidden serial number stamped into the frame under the foregrip mounting bracket. Back in those days it was not against the law to deface the serial number on a firearm in the US. It only became a requirement to place a serial number on a production firearm in 1968.

--fjruple

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Originally Posted by oldfoneguy

Well I'll be. The hole spacing seemed a little wide for a Lyman and with it being done in England I assumed they would have used a Parker-Hale. Proven wrong again! Bill

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Not proven: "I believe..." was as far as I can go;)

Further to last, it is B.S.A. for certain. Those markings can be seen on a quite a few of these rifles, over the filled in "swimming pool" relief cut. "Made in England" should be "Re-made in England" in this case.