Counterboring / repair of barrel crowns in australian cadet service??

I have just come across an all matching 1941 lithgow, even the woodwork is still stamped MA41 and does not appear to have been replaced. curiously, the barrel has been recrowned with the muzzle counterbored a 3-5mm. The condition of the metal would indicate it was done many years ago, and may have even been refinished at the time.

My first though is that this is probably something done by a cadet unit armorer when the federal government cut a lot of funding to them in the 70's, but the originality of the rest of the rifle makes me believe that it is at least not a total bubba job and quite a bit of care went into keeping that thing complete and together in its original format

Thoughts?

I've got one the same. Always thought it was done by an enthusiast acurising his rifle.

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Originally Posted by Homer

I've got one the same. Always thought it was done by an enthusiast accurising his rifle.

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I sorta thought that as well, except it doesn't show anything else that indicates it was used as a range rifle, and I have never seen a range rifle that was matching numbers and like this one. other than the recrowning, its perfect

Re crowning was never part of our system, even when slightly cord-worn when crowning would/might have solved the problem

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Re crowning was never part of our system, even when slightly cord-worn when crowning would/might have solved the problem

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Thanks peter, this is why i thought it might have been an AIRTC or RAAC unit in aus that did it on the sly. It was every man (unit) for themselves at one stage to get by. I do remember that part of the withdrawel of funds included both uniform and armoring. My first set of greens i was issued in the AIRTC in 1990 was made in 1956, and there will still the odd patt37 webbing pouches floating around

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Originally Posted by BushyFromOz

still the odd patt37 webbing pouches

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Peter' favorites.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Peter' favorites.

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lol =D

I do remember as a kid a Bren gun pouch would carry a lot of packets of noodles with my hexamine stove =D

I'm not sure what sort of skills/authority a 'Cadet Force armourer' would have had to do something that us REME/RAEME Armourers wouldn't be able to do - or be equipped to do. We did have a few local school cadet stuff under our wing in Oz, as we do here. I suspect that it's been nicely done in civvy life afterwards. Maybe a bit of cordwear to clean up.....

The thing about '37 patt webbing I really, truly don't understand, especially as someone brought up as an apprentice for 3 years with the stuff and all that that entails, is that people collect it! As I seem to remember the stuff we had, the web belt part was the only thing that was standard throughout the range. There were low pouches, higher pouches, long bayonet frogs, high frogs, frogs with loops, crossstraps with brass buckles or steel buckles. As for those anklets........ Anyway, just talking about it has put me in a bad mood.

I have only seen counter boring on Military Rifles; that have came out of Finland and this has always been on Mosin Nagants

In my M1 carbine manual (TM9-1276, Feb 1953) counter boring M1 carbines was allowed during rework. I saw one Winchester carbine in all my years that came out of south America with such a rework.

The Russian collectors tell me in the post 1953 rebuild programs in the Soviet Union cord worn rifles were counter-bored. I certainly have seen such in the M-N imports form the 2006 to 2012 time period that came out of the case with mint external condition and pitted bores that had been counter-bored.

None of the Australian REME instructions that have been published , and the last one I ever saw was from 1973 or so provided for such a counter-boring. I very much doubt it was done in any military service.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I'm not sure what sort of skills/authority a 'Cadet Force armourer' would have had to do something that us REME/RAEME Armourers wouldn't be able to do - or be equipped to do. We did have a few local school cadet stuff under our wing in Oz, as we do here. I suspect that it's been nicely done in civvy life afterwards. Maybe a bit of cordwear to clean up.....

The thing about '37 patt webbing I really, truly don't understand, especially as someone brought up as an apprentice for 3 years with the stuff and all that that entails, is that people collect it! As I seem to remember the stuff we had, the web belt part was the only thing that was standard throughout the range. There were low pouches, higher pouches, long bayonet frogs, high frogs, frogs with loops, crossstraps with brass buckles or steel buckles. As for those anklets........ Anyway, just talking about it has put me in a bad mood.

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i dont think they had that kind of connection here that you guys had in the uk peter. They basically cut all ties with any cadet movement and gave them nothing other than a name for the best part of a decade, unless you were a cadet unit on a base you could scrounge up the right people to do the work for you. If you were a unit not on a base you made it up as you went along, especially of it was in regional oz. That worked until the 80, 90s when they took firearms out of stores altogether and when they did get something back, they were bog standard brno model 2's for target shooting

I never encountered an armourer in any cadet units of my acquaintance in the late '60's, early '70's.

If anything was amiss with any of the rapidly reducing stock of issued weapons, it was withdrawn and sent to the nearest "formation" workshop. Most units also only held "DP" weapons; functional ones being held at the nearest "REAL" service armoury and issued "on the range / exercise".

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Originally Posted by Frederick303

In my M1 carbine manual (TM9-1276, Feb 1953) counter boring M1 carbines was allowed during rework. I saw one Winchester carbine in all my years that came out of south America with such a rework.

The Russian collectors tell me in the post 1953 rebuild programs in the Soviet Union cord worn rifles were counter-bored. I certainly have seen such in the M-N imports form the 2006 to 2012 time period that came out of the case with mint external condition and pitted bores that had been counter-bored.

None of the Australian REME instructions that have been published , and the last one I ever saw was from 1973 or so provided for such a counter-boring. I very much doubt it was done in any military service.

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Yeah i figured there would be no RAEME instruction for it, but i do understand that there was a point where cadet units did not have RAEME services available to them, hence my theory

Sorry guys, im probably sounding like one of those people who comes in here asks a question and then ignores the information provided by those with the answers, which isnt my intent at all.

The answer has already been given, someone accurising his rifle, unlikely anything to do with cadet units, i just like throwing junk ideas around inside my head =D

And peter, those tall Patt37 pouch, you can fit a hexamine stove and tablets, 3 packets of noodles and, a muesli bars and a bunch of beef jerky in one of those, they were great =D

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Originally Posted by BushyFromOz

And peter, those tall Patt37 pouch, you can fit a hexamine stove and tablets, 3 packets of noodles and, a muesli bars and a bunch of beef jerky in one of those,

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They did that for sure. We used them way into the next families of webbing too.

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

I never encountered an armourer in any cadet units of my acquaintance in the late '60's, early '70's.

If anything was amiss with any of the rapidly reducing stock of issued weapons, it was withdrawn and sent to the nearest "formation" workshop. Most units also only held "DP" weapons; functional ones being held at the nearest "REAL" service armoury and issued "on the range / exercise".

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That works in quite well with a tidbit of info i got, in that some of the more "well off" schools had rifles but they were owned privately by the school and not the ADF, which is actually how i got my BSA International mk2 when they replaced them with Anschutz Match 54's.

My school had its own mortors, Vickers, brens, owens as well as rifles.

Can i ask what school bindi?

I think my dad's school (shore in sydney) must have had mortars in the 50's as he said he was a 2" mortarman in cadets.

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Originally Posted by henry r

Can i ask what school bindi?

I think my dad's school (shore in sydney) must have had mortars in the 50's as he said he was a 2" mortarman in cadets.

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Guildford Grammar. They only have deacts now.

The good old days: When cadets would carry rifles on trams and NOBODY would even blink.

Now it's all Pavlovian programming.

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Originally Posted by Bruce_in_Oz

When cadets would carry rifles

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Ours can only use air rifles now. No man sized targets either, just bullseye's.

I had a look at mine, the c/bore is only about 1mm deep. The bore is **** but the externals of the rifle are about as good as they come.

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Originally Posted by Homer

I had a look at mine, the c/bore is only about 1mm deep. The bore is **** but the externals of the rifle are about as good as they come.

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Hm, will have to investigate this one oi saw further. Other than the recrowning, everything was MA41 on absolutely everything, with a shiny bore. I actually thought it could a good one for learning bullet casting on if it is shot out too badly