Hi Guys
Should there be a continuous smooth pull or a clear change from a stage 1 to 2. Mine has a very smooth long pull.
Regards Chubbs
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Hi Guys
Should there be a continuous smooth pull or a clear change from a stage 1 to 2. Mine has a very smooth long pull.
Regards Chubbs
https://www.milsurps.com/content.php...-Peter-Laidler)
Chubbs: definitely not optimal. Check out this article from the forum library (as well as part 1). Get a good understanding of what's happening before trying to make any changes.
Ridolpho
As Ridolpho pointed out, here's links to the full MKL article .. :thup:
With thanks to Advisory Panel member Peter Laidler, check his article presented in two parts in the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here).
"The Trigger Pull-Off" - Part 1 (By Peter Laidler) (click here)
"The Trigger Pull-Off" - Part 2 (By Peter Laidler) (click here)
This interesting article is accompanied by a detailed photo montage of a previously damaged skeletonised No.4(T) rifle, used as a training piece for budding Armourers to learn with and develop their skills. As Peter says "It appeared that this ‘rifle’ had never been finished as a ‘T’ as the front pad hole had not been drilled. During bead blasting after a hard life as a skeletonised rifle, it was established that the screw had sheared off and simply been made off level. Drilled out and extracted, it’s back to its former self. Waste not, want not as they say…". Other photos in the article show the clear interaction of the sear, cocking piece and trigger during various phases of its operation.
Hope that helps … :)Quote:
Article Extract .....
Pictorially, this shows the trigger at the end of the first pull, both ribs touching the trigger bent or flat of the sear with the sear nose at the extreme edge of the cocking piece………, just ready for the off.
http://photos.imageevent.com/badgerd...s/DSCF0156.JPG
(Click PIC to Enlarge)
Regards,
Doug
I would echo the above excellent advice, get yourself a beer (or three), put a log on the fire, sit back in your favourite arm chair and read and thoughly digest Peter's excellent article before making any changes..
I had one that someone had removed one of the ribs, another that had the face of the cocking piece stoned so much it just had a single stage. One of my sporting #5 carbines had poor fitted wood that caused a single stage pull, once I fitted things correctly, the two stage was returned and nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs
Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
I have a spare No4 trigger somewhere just the same Jim, rib removed, I guess that's 70 odd years of rifle club mods for you, personally I don't see why you would want to get rid of the second stage...
Cheers Guys
Great article thanks Ridolpho and Doug.
Having read the articles I stripped down my rifle removing the furniture and then putting the trigger and guard back on. Hey presto the trigger now has 2 crisp stages. Looks Like most of the parts are brand new. I guess it was either put back together incorrectly or the furniture was off a different gun and just needs bedding in.
Regards Chubbs
Here's another thing before you do that again.......... NEVER remove the fore-end by pulling it down and off from the muzzle end. Never, ever.......... ALWAYS remove the fore-end by tapping the two top rear edges downwards to loosen the tapered lock between the drawers and butt socket.
People thinking they'll make it better...even though it's perfection.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Hi Guys
Having reassembled the rifle with 2 different fore ends including the original. The trigger reverts back to 1 long smooth pull. If I take the fore ends off and reassemble the trigger minus wood , the trigger goes back to 2 stage. Does the wood work where the trigger fits need to be trimmed, I also note that the spacer has been ground shorter. Even with the longer spacer fitted the trigger is still one long smooth pull. the front screw has 2 marks on the trigger guard and these line up with screw slot for each of the lengths when tight.
Attachment 82149Attachment 82148
Regards Chubbs
Dear Peter, I'm at a loss right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
What does that exactly mean?
I wanted to "strip" my No. 4 but now you froze me a bit.
I must understand what that means before I get moving......
I'll look at the rifle rereading this later tonight. Maybe I'll get it then.
Perhaps download a complete set of manuals for the Lee Enfield from the MKL, which includes operating and armourer's maintenance instructions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ovidio
The manuals may be found in the Technical Articles for Milsurp Collectors and Re-loaders (click here)
2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)
Complete Set includes:
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Data Summary
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Parts Identification List
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Equipment Description
- 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions
1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals (click here)
Complete Set includes:
- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Operating Instructions
- 1991 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Maintenance Instructions
Note: The difference between the 1991 set of No.4 Manuals and 2002 No.4 (All Marks) .303 Rifle Manuals, is that the 1991 manual contains armourer's information on how to properly "bed" the No.4 rifle, whereas the newer 2002 manual does not.
Hope this helps... :)
Regards,
Doug
Thank you very, very much!
Having further checked what is going on i have found that the angle at the front of the trigger guard seems to make all the difference. If the gap between the guard and the receiver is greater than 20.2mm's then the trigger only has one long smooth pull. Anything under and its a 2 stage pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs
Attachment 82150
The measurement thickness on the stocks is
Original 21.12mm
New 21.69mm
So how would you thin that space or does it require new trigger parts. I am at a loss.
Thin trigger guard is not bent.
Regards Chubbs
I have one here that had this problem and I used a wood chisel to slowly remove thin amounts until the trigger guard went into place correctly. I took it off the bottom not the inside. I put the wood on, turned it upside down and slowly removed, testing every couple of passes until the two stage returned. You may have to take some off the full length of the sides too. Both sides of the mag opening. That whole assembly has to lie flat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs
Chaps......... Could some kind soul please resurrect the article I wrote about fitting a fore-end correctly for Chubbs. It took us months during a loooooong apprenticeship of endless fitting, patching, trying again and STILL getting it wrong many many times before some of us (excluding me) mastered it. Chubbs, with the best will in the world, this is an art and practising on a new fore-end is fraught with costly dangers. You really need to know the technicalities first.
Peter thank you for your input. I think I found your article and it helped me with the draws. I appreciate that it took many months of practice to get it right. I would imagine if you took a couple of hours just get the draws right then the instructor would have been less than pleased. I however have the time.
I appreciate I am new to the forums and it must be a bit tedious if I am asking questions that have already been answered elsewhere. For that I apologise.
In regards to the trigger I would just like the last bit of advice in regards to the wood being to thick to allow the stage operation. Is it as Jim states and the wood needs to be trimmed on the trigger guard side. This as I said is the same with the original woodwork.
Regards Chubbs
I knew I'd draw fire on this one but I had to tell him what I did to sort mine. So be it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
That was what was wrong with mine in any case...Quote:
Originally Posted by Chubbs
Adjusting the trigger pressure is absolutely nothing to do with fitting a fore-end or the thickness of the wood under the collar. Fit the fore-end properly FIRST, adjust the collar to suit and THEN set up the trigger pull-offs and THEN adjust the pressures
It has been said that to adjust the double pull off you bend the trigger guard to suit. With respect to those who advocate this method of pure white mans magic and witchcraft, pray tell me, just how?
A quick thank you to Peter for the information re trigger issues. My No4 Mk1 suddenly developed a single pull from its normal two stage. Baffled (having changed parts to no avail) I searched the forum and realised from the articles I hadn't considered the trigger - the pivot pin was well worn. I had an unissued new old stock complete Mk1 trigger guard so fitted it and....back to a perfect two stage trigger.
Thank you!
Regarding the original post from Chubbs; a photo of the trigger guard may be useful. To ensure that it is not bent!
I know Peter mentioned some people bend the thing to bodge the trigger. But I don't think Chubbs has been asked if his trigger guard is straight.
So are we certain that the trigger guard is good before Chubbs adjusts the woodwork?
Trigger guard must be straight, it was one of the checks on the crib sheet.
Real Armourers didn't go in for a lot of this '....bend it a bit....' stuff to effect repair because 'bend it a bit' and other phrases such as '...gently swage the top...'. and 'grind a small amount from.....' have different meanings to different people, such as Recovery mechanics or cooks or blanket stackers
I was I the motor trade for 20 years Peter, so I will add ' it's got to give a bit' and 'technical tap' to 'gently swage the top and 'grind a small amount from'
Or that other old motor trade classic regarding oil or water leaks '........ get a few miles on the clock and that'll have fixed itself......'