Royal Irish Constabulary issued Mk 2 Artillery Carbine .577 - 455

Evening all, just bought myself a Royal Irish Constabulary issued Artillery Carbine, in good all round shooting condition, much original bluing remaining on the barrel, great looking bore and chamber with no pitting and good woodwork, just missing finish on the action body and lever.

I have spent the evening going over the markings and what a facinating little rifle it it is!

Made as Mk1 by Enfield in 1872, it was subsequently converted to a MK2 and eventually after a period in store, converted into an Artillery Carbine for the Irish Constabulary contact, butt roundel number RIC 9161.

I need a rear sling swivel and correct period sling to finish her off.

Pics in the week chaps, another rifle for careful restoration to live condition and adding to my FAC.

Excuse the phrase John, but wonder if your muzzle will fit my ring.......... on my Artillery Saw back bayonet, its just under the length of the rifle, don't have the scabbard but the bayonet is not bad, decent grips and the teeth on the saw are as sharp as the day it was made, let me know if interested.

Definitely interested Geoff, I'll give you a call mate.

I love the look of these little Carbines, been on my shopping list since I put a few rounds down range with one a couple of years back, I don't know what load was used, but it kicked like a mule ... Great fun!

I bought this one for £450, best (potential) shooting condition Artillery I have come across to date.

It appears serviceable to me, but I'm not a gunsmith, so I will get her checked over prior to adding it to my FAC. Detail strip, clean and a little light restoration soon, workload allowing.

Morning all,

Well here she is, its interesting, what I thought was age related worn finish to the action body (with my middle age eyes) there appears to be evidence of someone removing the finish looking at the pictures.

No doubt a home re-blue project that never got finished, I will address this with a re blue and blend into the original barrel finish.

I think I will just carefully clean the woodwork and re oil it.

Despite her slightly rough appearance, she's commendably corrosion free as someone had the presence of mind to flood the bore with what appears to be old engine oil back in the day, just a little down at heal, so a bit of work should have this old cannon booming away again...

What lovely original stamps there by the trigger guard........British Enfield technicians at their finest!

Hi Gil, looking forward to the day I can get her onto the range after checks and FAC variation come back, these carbines are "quite lively" things to shoot!

Very accurate though

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Very accurate though

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Probably so in your capable hands Gil, mine not so much, but I do enjoy shooting them, when you see the energy imparted to the target holder when it thuds home, it makes you shudder, this heavy old round must have inflicted grievous injuries to the enemies of the empire!

These little Artillery carbines in particular pack a fair shoulder wallop to the unwary...

Not really a problem if you stick to the Marksmans Principles. It was a really effective Carbine in trained hands, and was probably the quickest load rifle in Military hands at the time.

Looks excellent John, I'll get them pics to you tonight of the bayonet, I have a .303 carbine that is rough around the edges, but would make a nice companion !!!

It is certainly an experience firing one which I had the pleasure to do on one occasion at Ballykinler in the Province with the SAC on a course.
The leather belt worn pouch held a maximum of 25 cartouche's as I remember, so at least you knew where you were on rounds fired or counted, but what heavy rounds they were;)

I'd have the dies and be loading for it...for sure.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

Looks excellent John, I'll get them pics to you tonight of the bayonet, I have a .303 carbine that is rough around the edges, but would make a nice companion !!!

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Cheers Geoff, works having the audacity to get in the way of my Milsurps enjoyment at the moment! All I want to do is head to the workshop to detail strip, inspect and carefully restore the carbine, really frustrating!

It's hard to get a good .303 Carbine isn't it, most seem to be well and truly shot out ... I had a look at one the other week, I swear the bore was larger than my .577 - 45 and worn oval !

Side note, I contacted Peter Dyson yesterday afternoon for a butt sling swivel, arrived this morning and fitted to the rifle before heading off to the office, great service or what!

Has anyone seen the condition of the World Wide Arms original Martini Slings ?? I was thinking of getting one, I'm assuming they are ex Nepalese cache examples??

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I'd have the dies and be loading for it...for sure.

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That's the plan Jim, but I won't make moves in that direction until the rifles on my FAC and passed Gunsmith inspection..

She has the * mark on the top barrel flat and the twin (reverse RR) condemn markings, nothing I can see wrong, but I am only a keen amateur not a gunsmith, so hopefully no show stoppers to be discovered. I will know more once I have it stripped down.

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Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

It is certainly an experience firing one which I had the pleasure to do on one occasion at Ballykinler in the Province with the SAC on a course.
The leather belt worn pouch held a maximum of 25 cartouche's as I remember, so at least you knew where you were on rounds fired or counted, but what heavy rounds they were;)

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They certainly are Gil, I spent a day a few years back now shooting the British Armys long arms from Brown Bess to L85, while "old Bess" and the P53/6 were just a pleasant progressive push, the Martini rifle had more of a punch, though not unpleasant, the Artillery Carbine though had "significant recoil", very charasmatic, a true classic and it just put a stupid great grin on my face!

Been looking for just the right one to fit the bill since then (cosmetically​ restorable and good potential shooter).

Anyone know is the significance of the Q stamped into the left of the butt?

MrClark303, the condemned rifle that you are thinking of shooting, where exactly is the 'twin sisters' back to back R marking? In the metal or the wood?

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

MrClark303, the condemned rifle that you are thinking of shooting, where exactly is the 'twin sisters' back to back R marking? In the metal or the wood?

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Afternoon,

The condemn marking is stamped twice in the right side of the forend, nothing on the metal work. I still haven't had the chance to detail strip her and check. Rest assured it's going nowhere near a range until its been gunsmith checked and given the go ahead.

I finally had the opportunity to detail strip, inspect and renovate the Carbine this weekend, I reblue and blended into the original surviving blue.

Mechanically, she's in excellent shape, but she proved very reluctant to come apart, 100 plus years of a mix of hard conjealed oil and crap had effectively welded the bolt onto its ledge.

The bolt split pin was the same, the rock hard crap in the gap made it very difficult to shift, impervious to all solvents .. only elbow grease and all my gun cleaning kit shifted it.

after it was all clean and I had the opportunity to thoroughly inspect the empty action body and all the seperate components, it's proven to be in very good order indeed, with no corrosion anywhere.

The woodwork has been cleaned with degreaser and a red, followed by grey scotchbrite, to shift the dirt and clean the wood, followed by raw linseed oil soaking, looks much better now.

Pics next week guys.

You could try the Martini Henry Society for a sling, if you wish, and they have a website.

Evening F10, yep will do, I would like an original if I can find a good one at a decent price.

Looking forward to getting her onto my FAC to shoot her, very smart little Carbine.

A few pics of the finished rifle guys, not over restored, just a little sensitive restoration.

The woodwork looks much better now its been cleaned, gently steamed some of the dents out and re-oiled and the blue has taken well to the action body and blended into the original barrel blue.

I blued the breech block and polished the cleaning rod until it gleamed, not historically correct, (I think it should be the other way round), but its my rifle and I like the look...:cheers:

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Have you found the true manufacture date yet? If present this should be marked on the front to the receiver just below where the barrel screws into the receiver but it is normally covered by the fore-end woodwork. It would take the form of 5/72 for May 1872, for example. The date marked on the side of the receiver could be out by 6 months because the Enfield year didn't use to run from January to December like everyone else's year.

4/84 F10, that must be the Carbine conversion date though, because she started life as a Mk1.

Yes, perhaps they removed the original number then re-stamped. Have you seen the "official" conversions of Martinis into .22 target rifles? They did a good quality conversion with lovely chequered stock.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

I like the look

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Yep, it looks good. I'd likely have done about the same...

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Yes, perhaps they removed the original number then re-stamped. Have you seen the "official" conversions of Martinis into .22 target rifles? They did a good quality conversion with lovely chequered stock.

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They make very accurate .22's, my wife used to shoot 98's and 99's all the time with one.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Yep, it looks good. I'd likely have done about the same...

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Cheers Jim, she looks like she should shoot well, always rewarding putting your own stamp on a classic.

Many years ago I bought one of these, and it's the only time I've ever bought "a lemon". All looked well on the outside, and the bore looked nice when I checked it, it just needed a bit of a clean, I applied to have it added to my FAC and collected together the various bits n bobs to reload for it while the variation was approved. The day came and I assembled half a dozen cartridges to try it out. First shot went bang and there was even a hole on the paper at 50 yards, so that was good. Then I attempted to eject the case and the lever wouldn't budge, it was stuck fast. When I got it home, I finally managed to get the breech open after much persuasion, and I examined the empty case. Just in front of the shoulder/neck junction there was a rectangular swelling that went latterally around half the circumference of the neck. The carbine had been saw-cut, and then someone had welded the cut closed (or welded half a washer into it), and re-dressed the surface to match the rest of the steel, it was invisible on the outside. When I examined the chamber from the breech end with a piece of broken mirror I could see a dark line accross the chamber, which was the inside of the cut that the case had swelled into. If you can't see inside the chamber of these carbines when you buy, it's worth inserting a dental pick or similar implement inside to check for it catching. I hope yours isn't the same.

An excellent warning Harry, its the very first thing I checked funnily enough.

From what I have seen, this deac saw cut was applied to a good many of these ex RIC Carbines, perhaps a standard method of "decommissioning" all Martini's at the time?

Most seem to be DP marked, but not all frustratingly...

A big help for me on my example was the surviving original blue under the barrel and the mirror bright bore.

I had a carbine similararilly cut and welded. Only close examination and catching it in the right light revealed the dressed weld.
However, the carbine had been sleeved to 22 rim fire and became one of my favourite plinkers.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

I had a carbine similararilly cut and welded. Only close examination and catching it in the right light revealed the dressed weld.
However, the carbine had been sleeved to 22 rim fire and became one of my favourite plinkers.

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https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3/fm2qs1-1.jpg

The barrel was cut and then welded directly in front of the Nock's form.