1936 Lithgow.

Being a fan of Enfield rifles a few years ago I found a pretty beat up No1 Mk III in a local gun store. It had seen a lot of abuse and neglect in it years but appealed to me. Had the magazine cutoff in place and is stamped Lithgow 1936. I brought it home for $200.00 and put aside as a eventual project which is where I am now. I have taken it apart for a badly needed cleaning. Reciever and barrel numbers match but finish is rough. Looks to be dated on the barrel 2.40 and bore is rough but rifling is strong. Many parts seem to be original and are stamped MA. Other parts look to be non Australian. Nose cap is cut for stacking swivel which I have been told is incorrect and the ears are not rounded but squared off. Trigger guard has provision for a swivel. Trigger not marked etc. etc. Forestock and hand guards seem to be Australian and I have shimmed the copper draws for a nice snug fit. Butt stock might be off a Mk4 as there is no cutout for the safety.

So I am starting to put this back together. I can get Australian parts to replace the non Australian marked parts from Springfield Sporters. Looks like most will be marked BA or OA. I have also found a butt stock cartouched Lithgow but dated 1943. It also has a green band painted around it which I have read is not a really terrible thing.

So other than for personal satisfaction would you guys replace the non Australian parts with Australian parts even with the OA and BA stamps? Or am I just creating a bigger hodge podge of mismatched parts than I started with? I do know that this rifle will never be a collectors item and replacing those parts are not going to increase the value by much. Just for some reason seems to be a right thing to do to me.

Actually a 1936 dated Lithgow will always have some collectable value because it's a rare action date. Not suggesting you've got some holy grail, but the 30's dates are the harder to find because of the limited numbers they were made. Take some photos of what you have now so we can see it. Maybe it has some legitimacy as it is and you might be trying to reverse its history.
For the record, 1936 Lithgow were made with piling swivel. Yours sounds like it was probably assembled in 1940, rifles still had piling swivel at this point in time.

It's been through lots of time and hard to say who did what. Changing parts at this point becomes a very expensive venture.

Guys, wouldn't squared off ears be a sign of an Ishapore made nose cap?

Square ears is definitely an RFI nose cap. I have a 1923 Lithgow in my project rack that is out of Indian service and very similar but in decent shape inside and out. The nose cap on it is an earlier RFI part with the round "ears".

Reciever

More photos of what came with rifle when purchased. The copper plates or draws I have shimmed. Also repaired some small cracks and built up the breakout around the king bolt bushing. Used acraglass.

If you want to restore at least the nosecap, there's a 1935 Lithgow nosecap on eBay right now. Probably your only chance ever to get one

Butt stock that came with.

Anything on the other face of the butt? It looks like Queensland maple that would have been correct on that rifle, possibly the original butt. Looking more like a restored sporter.

These are parts I have picked up that are supposed to be of Australian origin. Marked with the six pointed star, OA or BA.

Bottom sight came on rifle. Top sight came from Springfield Sporters as a Australian sight thought slides could be British they said. Looks to new to blend with patina of rifle.

Nose caps I have on hand. Left is marked BA and is from Springfield Spotters. One On right I got at a gun show out of a box of parts for a few bucks.

Nothing on other face of the butt stock. Not relieved for safety either which I am guessing it should be????? You may very well be correct that someone was trying to restore a spotter. Was missing the reinforcement plate from butt end of forestock as well as the inner band springs and some other little things like washers and the like. The end cap for a 1935 Lithgow on EBay I can not find. Do you happen to have a item number?

I don't actually. Someone told me and I confirmed the serial number.

What is the barrel date?

It certainly has potential.

Just to be a pain in the a##, the OA, BA, WA etc arsenals didn't open till circa 1942 and the star marking ended in the 20's.
Could we please get some pics of the know form area and the wrists. These should give a basis to decode some of this rifles story.

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Originally Posted by Homer

Looking more like a restored sporter.

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I think Homer has nailed it...and there's lots to do to make this look the way it used to. I'd think just assembling it and shooting it might be the way to go. Less expensive for sure that what may lie ahead...

I agree with Jim's summation having sourced the missing parts for my 1916 Lithgow MkIII year correct right down to the correct military district (5MD) it was a long road @8-9 years getting the quality pieces some pieces cost 4 times what the actual rifle did. Be happy with it and have fun early Lithgow pieces tend to be pricey. A range report is on the cards as we always like to see how they go.

Here are pictures of receiver markings. Interesting to me anyway that forward of the barrel flat on top -knox form?- there appears to be a 6 point star stamp where the barrel tapers away from that flat. Information given here indicates that marking was stopped in the 1920's. Carryover old stock barrel? Guessing the 2.40 stamp on left side of barrel is assembly date.

You have a 1936 action that was assembled some time later in 1940, hence the MA38 cutoff, MA39 front sight and 2/40 barrel. Very normal for a mid 30's receiver. I'm inclined to agree with the previous contributors, don't be too concerned about restoring it as it would have been. Finding the correct maple stock would be an enormous challenge. Use the parts you have and make the best of it. Not many 1936 actions around so you can be pleased by that detail.

i'm still learning so take this with a grain of salt, but I think the stars on the barrel are inspection marks (like the row of stars on the rhs of the receiver). from what I can tell they kept using the star inspectors stamps on the actions at least till the end of ww2.

as far as swapping parts, the only two that I would "have" to swap are the nose cap and the cover/spring piece on the safety. when I think interwar Lithgow (even though it was assembled in ww2) I think quality, those two bits make me shudder.

the holes in the wings of the BA nose cap are a 50's thing. I think they look cool and would match them with an early milled rear sight protector if I was building a bitsa to my tastes, but on this rifle i'm not so sure. the finish on it is a bit too agricultural.

the J in a circle stamp rings a bell but I can't remember what it means. anyone?

Well I finished putting the 1936 Lithgow together today. Like I have said it has had a rough life. Ended up replacing a few parts with Lithgow parts when I could find them. Some of them may not be 1940 period correct but are Australian parts. Others just used what I had. Have to do a range trip soon and she how it shoots.

Good looking old rifle...

Really LOUD garden chair!

And a nice start? to a collection of Lee Enfields.

Bruce that's a 3/4 time party chair when you have the beer goggles on you can find your seat easily!
Now all mahd needs is a 1935 Lithgow '07 bayonet & scabbard to finish it off very nice looking rifle.

That chair is what I call Kawasaki green. Since I ride a Kawasaki Concours 14 it has been a favorite color. Added bonus is its always easy to find!

Does this qualify for a meager start to a Enfield collection? Hoping to expand now that I seem to have enough M1 Garands for now. Should have bought more Enfields while prices were cheaper!

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Originally Posted by mahd776

Should have bought more Enfields while prices were cheaper!

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Yeah you and everybody else on this forum.

Of course it qualifies. Well done.

Ain't that the truth! Nice collection of 303's
Loved my Kwaka's 2 x 1976 green Z900's one was stolen the other a write off (woman went through a stop sign so I threw the bike away I ended up under her car.) and a ZIR MkI Silver tank should have kept them for the prices the 900's and 1000's are getting now 8K for an original 900 with standard pipes which always sounded awesome with the baffles out.

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Originally Posted by mahd776

Does this qualify

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That's a VERY nice group.

If at a gun show it seems that Enfield rifles call my name from several tables away. The bottom rifle I picked up at a show last fall. I must have been the only person to show any interest at all in it. Second time I looked at it he shot me a price I could not pass on. Said he thought it was worth at least $150.00 with the spike bayonet. Threw in a case to transport it in as well. Bore was dark but rifling strong so considered it pretty much a bargain at that price. It cleaned up well and the following weekend consistently smacked a 20 inch by 20 inch steel plate at 300 yards. And my old eyes are not great anymore at that range with open sights!

When you have 5 minutes, use Google maps to search for Lithgow New South Wales.

Once you have found Lithgow (MA) zoom out. A bit East you will find Bathurst (BA) and then a bit further East you will fins Orange (OA)

Someone with a better grasp of history than me, explained that Lithgow was selected as the site for the Ordnance factory as it was far enough inland to be out of range of the 1900's era warships.

Bathurst and Orange, as well as Forbes, were established as feeder factories, to increase the total capacity during WW2

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Originally Posted by paulseamus

When you have 5 minutes, use Google maps to search for Lithgow New South Wales.

Once you have found Lithgow (MA) zoom out. A bit East you will find Bathurst (BA) and then a bit further East you will fins Orange (OA)

Someone with a better grasp of history than me, explained that Lithgow was selected as the site for the Ordnance factory as it was far enough inland to be out of range of the 1900's era warships.

Bathurst and Orange, as well as Forbes, were established as feeder factories, to increase the total capacity during WW2

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Local coal supply and rail network connecting the lot to Sydney as well

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Originally Posted by BushyFromOz

Local coal supply

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That would be for the foundries and the boilers to provide power? The machines would have run off the common overhead pulleys I guess...?

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

That would be for the foundries and the boilers to provide power? The machines would have run off the common overhead pulleys I guess...?

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Exactly right. The pictures in the museum showing the overhead pully system throughout the factory are quite interesting

SA historic site was located on water to provide power exactly the same. The water powered engines that ran the shafts that ran...all overhead.

Paulus, it's easy to see you're from WA, try west and south west for those annex's.;)