German Maxim MG Nr.165

Bought this historic piece, and a 50 Cal. recently...found on the bald *** Alberta prairie in a town of 1500 people. I had no idea about it's history when I bought it, but some very knowledgeable researchers have verified it's past.

It is one of the estimated 3000 guns brought back to Canada after WWI by the government and distributed across Canada for museums, displays and such. The gun was captured on August 9, 1918 by the 8th Bn.(90th Winnipeg rifles)near Hatchet Wood during the battle of Amiens. Two VC's were earned by 8th Bn. on that day, in the same battle. Both for capturing MG positions. Records show that the gun was allotted to the town of Kerrobert, Saskatchewan. The sellers family was from this town. He said at one time it was part of a memorial in the town, but local vets voted to have it removed because it was a hun gun.

Sad that it's in relic condition, but the history of it makes it unique.
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Seriously, it's not that bad. I was taken past a town during the '80's that had two of these still standing beside the memorial down beside Hwy 12 in AB. Later I tried to find them again as they were just sitting there on top of the soil and not even anchored down. Unfortunately for me, I couldn't even find the town.

Bet if you try a bit, you'll corner the basic parts to make this look good again. Example, I had a Vickers lock for years that was found on the MG range firing point in Wainwright...and eventually sold it I think not long ago.

I have heard it said that the British fought for Honor the Canadians fought for souveneirs. I remember as a kid playing on one of these on a sled mount at a ball diamond in Inwood Ontario. I imagine it went for scrap long . I bought one several years ago that had bee one of two found in the attic of the Rosseau Ont Leigon.

There's still one on a sled mount set in concrete in front of the Digby NS Legion...

I wouldn't describe it as in relic condition, just not been look after for a long time. I recall seeing something similar, some years ago, in one of the many large country houses open to the public here in the U.K.. I do recall that it had the history of how the MG was captured recorded on it's side, I think on the butt side. The reason that it was on display in the house was because the former owner/Lord of the manor had been the officer in charge when it was captured.

Most of the MG'08 and 08/15 guns here had the official capture number painted on the receiver of the gun in orange paint which was done behind the lines by an official records unit. The info painted on the water jackets was 'unofficial' by the units that captured them, but of far more interest to a collector.

I had a bit of a win in 2015 when I recovered 5 Maxims that were concreted inside a wall in 1932. It has been a lot of work (and still ongoing) but I have got three in working order, one for spares, and one 08/15 as a relic that I have given to a museum. All the rest are MG'08's and 1 Russian 1905 Maxim, captured by the Germans and converted to 7.92x57, then captured by NZ troops. The concrete has excluded the moisture and the guns are quite good with a lot of original blue remaining. One is a 1909 DWM gun #613 which is stamped on the top cover as gun 3 of the MG Section of the 9th Bavarian Infantry Regiment. It is in very good condition with a barrel that scrubbed up to be about 8 out of 10. According to Dolf's book "The Devil's Paintbrush" this would be the 4th lowest serial number known. This gun was captured at Ploegsteert Wood (battle of Messines) in 1917 by the NZ Rifle Brigade The wooden grips were rotted away on all of the guns and I have yet to make replacements. They are all bare guns without mounts. I will post photos if anyone is interested.

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

They are all bare guns without mounts. I will post photos if anyone is interested.

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Of course we're interested...

This shows the 5 guns as I got them, and MG'08 #613.
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Quite a task you have taken on, how did you come to know their whereabouts? My MG08 bore a stencil in white paint that read "Canadian War Trophy 148th Battalion"

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

the 5 guns as I got them,

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Ok, that's more like I expected. I thought you were saying they came out in great shape. Those look more like what I expected. I too would sit with a dental pick or whatever was needed to clean them off. Slow but sure will do it.

I had an MG '08/15 show up and had to strip and sort it out. It turned out pretty good...

The chemicals in the concrete would have done no favours to the metal work heck of a job getting that lot off.

Would a phosphoric acid dip dissolve any concrete residue as well as dealing with any steel corrosion at the same time?

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

a phosphoric acid dip dissolve any concrete residue

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Don't know about that...I'd have sacrificed any remaining blue and glass bead blasted until; rust and concrete residue were a thing of the past. Then the Phosphoric acid...or bluing salts.

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Originally Posted by #1oilman

Quite a task you have taken on, how did you come to know their whereabouts? My MG08 bore a stencil in white paint that read "Canadian War Trophy 148th Battalion"

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Back in the 1970's I heard rumors from the old boys about a machine gun buried under the old flour mill, and I spent a lot of time on my belly under the floors amongst the the rodents without success. In 2015 the neighbouring factory had bought the mill and decided to knock down one of the buildings to increase yard space. A thick concrete wall was pushed over and broke apart revealing the guns. As I was well-known for my efforts to find the gun, I was promptly contacted and given the guns on the understanding that I would restore the M1905 Russian for the factory manager and the rest were mine to keep. I contacted the Police and had the guns put on my license under an amnesty provision. It took me 3 months to chip off the concrete with heat, CRC, cold chisels and scrapers, preserving whatever original finish remained, including the all-important water jacket capture details. Quite a bit of original blue and Field Gray paint was saved. Thin steel, like the fusee covers and grip liners, was well corroded, but the major parts were generally OK. There was also some digger bucket damage, particularly on the brass M1905. I made up a reverse-electrolysis bath to remove the worst of the rust, which also did not affect any original finish. DWM #613 was not only complete with all matching numbers, but was also reasonably well oiled when it was put in the wall, which helped the restoration a lot. The lock in #613 was still bright steel when I eventually got the top cover open. The barrels were only filled about 3-4" from either end and were easily cleaned. The top cover was separated from the M1905 (but with the gun) and the lock was rusted beyond repair. As the Germans had simply replaced the Russian lock with the standard MG'08 lock, I just put in another that I had in my spare parts.

In 1932 the NZ Police were concerned that the large number of German trophy MG's that were in the country could be used in the case of public insurrection as a result of the 'great depression' and they disposed any unwanted guns by dumping in swamps or buried in foundations of buildings. Several have come to light over the years during demolitions but none have been as well-preserved as these 5 guns. A good number of guns survived this purge but as most were stored outside, not many were in good condition. My old high school in the early '60's had two MG'08's, three Krupp field guns, and a large German mortar displayed in the grounds. These are sadly now all gone as the' PC brigade' got their wimpy wishes fufilled!

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Originally Posted by Woodsy

It took me 3 months to chip off the concrete with heat, CRC, cold chisels and scrapers,

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Now the story makes perfect sense, a different picture was envisioned at first. I too would have spent ages resurrecting.

The '08/15 in my pic had a rod in the barrel with bondo or some such and missing the lock. Once I'd finished, if my spare Vickers lock had fit I'd have been crankin'... It went to a man that was very happy to find it. Neatest parts was the feet of the bipod still had a filling of hardened dirt from many years ago. I left that and the obvious green paint. It would have been neat to have borrowed a lock long enough to warm it up, the barrel wasn't bad.

Great to see history preserved! Great story.Reminds me of a similar story a gunsmith acquaintance owned a gun shop in London Ontario now closed. His father was the original owner and was known for wild catting Winchester 1885 single shot rifles for ground hog hunting, as a result he had dozens of original Winchester barrels laying about his shop. years ago the father decided a new step was required at the back of the shop and he knew just what to use for re bar, you guessed it. Reading your story makes me want to head to London with my pick and sledge hammer1