1938 03A1? National Match?

I just got this paid 1400$ . It has no stock markings that I can find maybe something unrecognizable on the pistol grip. It in beautiful shape excellent bore. The owner claimed that all the non military guns made in 1938 were National Match but this was not in the Camp Perry matches. I will post pics of the book he showed me his rational was there were 1635 non military guns made that year 1605 were national match 29 NRA sporter and 1 trophy. This is not a trophy or a sporter so it must be a national match. It has no star gauge no serial numbers anywhere and it doesn't have the notch at the top of the sight range. Please help! What is it and what is the approximate value??
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Are you near Chuckindenver? You might call him and drive over to his shop. Sure looks live a recent Park job. The barrel looks polished white. Possible parts gun. Is the stock a real Springfield stock? I can't tell from the pictures.

[QUOTE=Calif

I know the guy I got it from and he told me its been in his collection for 15 or so years I have purchased 20 or so rifles from him and trust his word

Don't know Chuck I'm clueless on this gun the stock is unmarked


older pics
[url="http://www.gunauction.com/buy/14430659"]http://www.gunauction.com/buy/14430659[/url]

You need to find Chuck.

More than likely a pieced together M1903A1. If I had the whole serial number I could look it up.

Hi RTL
In one of the early pictures I belief that I can read the S/N as 1511565-FWIW.
I believe that it is an assembled rifle because"
1. The cocking piece is 03A3
2. The Bolt Sleeve is Smith-Corona
3. The butt plate has the fine checkering lime pre-WWI ; not the coarse checkering of the NM. I bought a couple of thee in the 1960's for $5.00 each
4. The parkerising looks to be like that gray that that is common to parts that I ordered through the DCM in the 1960's -particularly the trigger guard.
FWIW

[QUOTE=Cosine26;396842]Hi RTL
In one of the early pictures I belief that I can read the S/N as 1511565

Thank you everyone!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cosine26

Hi RTL
In one of the early pictures I belief that I can read the S/N as 1511565-FWIW.
I believe that it is an assembled rifle because"
1. The cocking piece is 03A3
2. The Bolt Sleeve is Smith-Corona
3. The butt plate has the fine checkering lime pre-WWI ; not the coarse checkering of the NM. I bought a couple of thee in the 1960's for $5.00 each
4. The parkerising looks to be like that gray that that is common to parts that I ordered through the DCM in the 1960's -particularly the trigger guard.
FWIW

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When I was in ROTC in the 1960s there was a rifle M1 that had that same gray parkerization so obviously an arsenal rebuild job. The stock has the relief cut for the M1903A3 handguard clip, and was a replacement. The seller may have been honest in what he thought this rifle was but it is obviously an assembled piece. Whether the receiver was a National Match or not is irrelevant.

I'd like it as a shooter myself, since the bore's good. Nice looking rifle.

Has anyone done a SRS check on the SN? I really doubt the rifle. Never buy the story, buy the gun.

RTL was going to check S/N but evidently he could not read it. I posted it earlier but no response yet'.

Is it possible to return this rifle? $1400.00 is way out of line for what appears to be a parts gun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Has anyone done a SRS check on the SN? I really doubt the rifle. Never buy the story, buy the gun.

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Sorry I didn't see this earlier (the whole serial number). Unfortunately, no match in the SRS records I have.

For Discus240
Lest you become discouraged about the M1903 that you bought, lets examine it piece by piece. I am basing my thoughts on the pictures that you posted and the description that you gave. A personal examination by a me or an expert may point out some changes in my thoughts.
1.Receiver- This is a late manufactured, peach time, nickel steel receiver, with a "Hatcher" hole that looks as if it was done professionally , maybe by the Armory. It looks to have been parkerized by the Armory as it has the same color that some spare receivers that I received when I traded in some SHT receivers in the 1960. I do not see any dents or rust and presume that it is not cracked.
2. The Barrel is a SA barrel manufactured in peace time at the Armory. You say it is in good condition so I accept that. In his Book of the Springfield, Crossman indicates that the post 1929 service barrels were on a par with stir gauged barrels. It has intact a FSRB with a good M1905 sight. It is dated 1938 and is in the time frame of the receiver so may be original.
3. The Bolt is a later nickel steel bolt of the same vintage as the receiver and the barrel according to VI's charts, so may well be original to the receiver.
4. As nearly as I can tell the trigger guard assembly is a SA and appears to be of the color of two M1903
TG Assy"s that I ordered from the Army through the DCM in the 1960's.
5. The Butt Plate, while not of the NM configuration, is a checkered butt plate and appears to be one from a pre WWI or between the wars butt plate. While it is not of the NM configuration I have bought and used several on M1903's built for target use and have found them to be extremely better than the smooth butt plates or the 03A3 stamped butt plates.
5. The remainder of the visible stock hardware appear to be of armory manufacture and is satisfactory. I have to assume that the trigger and cutoff Assy's are of M1903 vintage.
In summary you have an intact M903 manufactured in approximately 1938 except for the firing pin and bolt sleeve Assy's. The stock appears top be of Remington M1903 manufacture - not 03A3 (I do not see the inletting for the barrel guard of the 03A3 in the stock). It has some dings and is not in really pristine. I am not prepared to address the hand guard.
In short- you have a very nice M1903 barreled action provided the rifle headspaces OK. If you can find a firing pin assy and a bolt sleeve of the correct vintage for a reasonable price you have a very nice M1903 which is becoming very rare the days Many were converted to Sporter or Match rifle configuration in the 1950's and 1960. While it is not "Collector" grade it is still a very nice rifle. Whether it is worth $1200 is up to you .
FWIW

If that helps, nearly all rifles in this serial range that are SRS listed are sold as receiver only, and there are quite a huge lot in the 1.511.xxx serial range listed. Therefore it can be assumed that this rifle originally started life as receiver only.

I think he paid $1400.00 for a parts gun. Way out of line. Nice '03 shooters can be found at about half that price. I would return it and start fresh.

Goes to show how starting with a false premise leads to a flawed conclusion. Just because all the complete rifles made in 1938 were NM doesn't mean that only complete rifles were made. In FY38 almost 16,000 more receivers were made than complete rifles.

All cats die.
Socrates is dead.
Therefore, Socrates was a cat.

Uh, nope.

The gun is worth more as a parts kit. Break it up and you can readily sell it off for the $1400 maybe even more. It was a fraud sale and sending it back is proper. If it can't go back, break it up and sell off the parts.

After reviewing the pictures again, I see that I am incorrect on the stock as it is apparently a type "C". I also quoted the price incorrectly as $1200 not the correct $1400'

I want to take a minute to thank all of you for your time and expertise I really do appreciate it. I got my money back guess that guy wasn't the man I though he was he shorted me 100$ on the return oh well live and learn.

Thanks Again!!!:D

I wish you well. If you are looking for an nice '03 take some pictures and post here. Lay down no cash, you will get 3-4 guys jumping in to help you. Good luck.

Sorry you got a bad egg on your face, I suffered a similar with a replica M-40 from a chap when I said the thing was a piece of junket of which I took pictures of the cruddy thing, I wanted my money back he shorted me $300 for the postal/Insurance to and from Australia for postage. Learned a big lesson from the episode look through the smoke for the real person.
I do not deal with this shyster at all anymore he is a total w*nker he also stuffed a mates pristine No.4 action putting pads on it to make a faker T up which he advertises that he does my mate had to buy another rifle and get a more qualified gunsmith to do the job correctly.

If you have brought 20 odd guns from him I just wonder at what cost to you unknowingly lesson learned I guess but do not let it affect your search for desirable rifles, now you know the existence of this site and the free help and advice the real knowledge base offers then as Calif-Steve says post the pic wait for the answers then decide, not right no pay simple and better for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by firstflabn

Goes to show how starting with a false premise leads to a flawed conclusion. Just because all the complete rifles made in 1938 were NM doesn't mean that only complete rifles were made. In FY38 almost 16,000 more receivers were made than complete rifles.

All cats die.
Socrates is dead.
Therefore, Socrates was a cat.

Uh, nope.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by firstflabn

All cats die.
Socrates is dead.
Therefore, Socrates was a cat.

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Bwahaha! Thanks for this.