I bought a Ishapore 2a Enfield in .308. Does anyone have any info on these and can I shoot commercial ammo through it?
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I bought a Ishapore 2a Enfield in .308. Does anyone have any info on these and can I shoot commercial ammo through it?
I bought to of these from AIM about 2 years ago. Allthe info I have read, and all the guys I speak to are divided on the subject. Some say yes, others adamantly say no. What I do know is commercial loads are made hotter than surplus, therefore more pressure in a thinner case. Me personally, I would only shoot surplus, or reloaded which are loaded on the lower end. Remington and some other ammo makers make "managed recoil" ammo that is loaded closer to military levels.I hear people have had good outcomes using that.Quote:
Originally Posted by glp70
Hate sying this but, "what tower06 said".
I was in the same situation, bought an Ishapore 2a then started finding out about the .308 vs. 7.62 debate which got me to start reloading.:thup:
Do a Google search or search on here for " 308 vs. 7.62 ." I like the advice "To shoot what is stamped on the gun."
Here's some areticle on the subject to help you out.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...nato/index.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...ato3/index.asp
http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting...nato/index.asp
There is no record of a 2A or 2A1 "blowing up" when fired with .308 ammo. The receivers are not cheap junk, and are proofed at 100,000psi (or ft.lbs. or some such). Not all military 7.62 or commercial .308 is loaded the same, so it can't be said that "commercial loads are made hotter than surplus", it's just not true.
Military 7.62 and commercial .308 pressures have historically been measured using different scales of measurement, so to compare them is an "apples/oranges" arguement, and therefore not valid. This "problem" has been cruising around the internet for years, but it just doesn't hold water.
The only real concern with the 7/62/.308 controversey is the internal differences in the two cases. Nato cases have thicker walls and less internal capacity. If you try to reload a hot .308 load into a 7.62 Nato case you could be creating a dangerous pressure issue. Otherwise, the two rounds are inter-changeable. As long as the headspace is correct on your milsurp rifle, you should have no problems at all with factory 7.62 Nato or .308W ammo.
That said, I would not fire a Chilean or Spanish converted Mauser with any ammo.
Hey, don't trust me, I'm just another internet guy. Don't read one or two threads, do the research.
I have been involved in similar discussions before on this forum and have received both support and critiscm - there is a difference between 308 and 7.62 as can be seen from the picture.
If it prooved for 308 it'll be stamped 308, if its prooved for 7.62 it'll be stamped 7.62.
Use the ammo the gun is prooved for.
The 'military' is the 7.62 whilst the commercial is the 308. There is 13 thou of an inch difference - that is a lot in headspace terms.
USE WHATS STAMPED ON THE GUN !!!
If you look at the headspace standards for the .303 British in commercial and military you will see a difference, if you look at the 30-06 headspace standards in commercial and military you will see a difference so please notice we shoot commercial ammunition in the .303 Enfield and the Springfield 03-A3 AND NOTHING HAPPENS.
For all practical purposes the .308 and 7.62 are one in the same just like the civilian commercial versions of the .303 and 30-06 are the same as military, the only difference is case life for reloading with commercial cases not lasting as long.
I shoot both types of ammunition in my 2A1 and I have the tools to measure the cases before and after they have been fired and the commercial cases reloading life will depend on your headspace settings just like the .303 british.
So yes there is a difference in chamber dimensions for the .308 and 7.62 just like there is chamber differences for the .303 and 30-06 and there is also a slight pressure difference of less than 2,000 CUP which in insignificant. (The pressure difference is the same as the military 30-06 and the commercial 30-06 and we interchanged them.)
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Just fire short bursts and don’t overheat your barrel. :rofl:
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...MGP22071-1.jpg
Do the .308 cases below remind you of our .303 case fired in our Enfield’s?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...308fail2-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../308fail-1.jpg
More food for thought, do you really want to argue about a few thousandths of an inch difference between the .308 and the 7.62? :rolleyes:
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Interesting. You never hear about the differences between .30-06 ammo and .303, its always 7.62 and .308. Everything you read says to strictly not shoot .308 commercial in a 7.62 rifle. So basically, don't reuse the brass more than 5 times or so, or it will be prone to failure.
If your headspace is good and you just neck resize, you might be able to get many more reloads.
Everything you read about not shooting .308 ammo in the 7.62 is based on the misconception on the changeover from CUP to the PSI transducer method of pressure readings 52,000 CUP is approximately 62,000 PSI which leads to mass confusion.
It is perfectly safe to shoot and interchange .308 and 7.62 ammunition.
(we did it with the 30-06 all the time and NO one complained)
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The military 7.62 cases are thicker in the web area than the .308 to be able to withstand the greater headspace and chamber diameters of military chambers, which reduces the amount of reloads in the commercial cases and increases the chance of distorted banana shaped cases which has an averse affect on bullet alignment and accuracy.
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I have fired three different types of commercial ammunition in my 2A1 and the only thing that was stressed was the commercial cases and not the rifle, the commercial cases would stretch and thin in the web area just like our .303 cases do.
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Look at the pressure readings on the two reloading charts below for IMR-4350 powder in CUP and PSI 44,200 CUP verses 55,100 PSI, this is why you see information saying the .308 has much higher pressures simply because people do not understand the difference in the two type pressures. (P) PSI (C) CUP (with the exact same amount of powder)
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As you can see below it is perfectly safe to put 32 pounds of air in your tires BUT if you put 220 kPa in your tires they will blow up and kill every one in a 50 yard radius. (And Santa still brings my Christmas presents) :rolleyes:
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