Advice for a first time Enfield buyer?

So I am looking at two Enfield rifles, the sellers are have a little wiggle room and they are both MK 4 NO 1s as far as I can tell, one is a matching Long branch that costs around 430 after fees and fees. The other I haven't gotten a chance to find a maker's mark on the other yet and costs around the same but the rear sight is missing but the mount for it is there and costs around 330 with the fees.
So what I am asking is if the second is worth it because I am looking shooter not something to just take up space in a gun safe or should I go for the other.

It's a little tough to say without knowing what the second one is. Personally I am a Long Branch fan. I would buy the Long Branch over any other No4 even for the extra $80.

It would sure help if you showed us some pics. Then we can see what you have in mind. Otherwise we're guessing...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

It would sure help if you showed us some pics. Then we can see what you have in mind. Otherwise we're guessing...

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Ask and ye shall receive....Ok that was bad even for me. So this the the long branch the other one is no longer for sale.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/k4...=w1840-h923-rw
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/aw...=w1840-h923-rw
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/T8...=w1840-h923-rw
The bore I would say is fair but dirty beyond all belief and these are the only pictures that I have my phone died right after getting the pic of the bolt face. Something else I noticed is that it has the rack number on it. Is that like the mosins like it's an odd thing to have and pick it up if you can get a deal on it or does it take away from the rifle?

Ummm! where is the pic's

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

where is the pic's

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I didn't say anything because I thought it was just me. I can't see them either.

I agree, the LB's are nice. parts are readily available. But never regret having a few in the safe. thats the safest place for them.(yes pun intended);).

be carefull of dirty bores, they could be hiding a condition typical of many LE's a worn out rifle bore from corrosion or poor cleaning practices.

around here they go for 275 to 350. but with a bad bore no more than 200. Criterion sells replacement barrels that are nice. reasonably priced.

with a new barrel it could become the beginning of a beautiful thing.

Ok I will need to try posting those pictures again because on my computer they showed up just fine. Ok now they should be working.

So, the finish on the flat side seems about new and the bolt face looks perfect except for some loose crud...how much is he asking? What are the other details on this one? Are there any other pics?

Around 450 if my memory isn't failing me but I just poured red Gatorade in my fruit loops this morning, and I managed to talk him in to throwing in an original strap. I'm going down there again today maybe and I'll try to grab some more photos if i can.

More pics would be good...the original sling isn't much of a bonus.

Should you have a condition such as a addictive personality my advice would be...don't start!

I'd go for it. Here I'd pay at least 700€ for a good one. Barrel?

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Originally Posted by enfield303t

Should you have a condition such as a addictive personality my advice would be...don't start!

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......You had me and then you lost me.

They are very insipid by nature and it is a proven fact once you buy 1 Lee Enfield rifle you get the urge to buy more it is known to be very hard to resist even harder to cure take it you have been warned.:madsmile:

Attachment 84618Ok so I couldn't get my camera to take a picture of the bore so this is the only new pic I have.
Also I was wrong on the price. It's 400 after the fees and tax out the door.

Ok so I was able to get up to the other place and they had the other one out again and this time I had my camera with me.
Attachment 84619Attachment 84620Attachment 84621Attachment 84622Attachment 84623Attachment 84624Attachment 84625
They guy is going to get back to me about the price and I can't tell where it was made only that it was made in 1944

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Originally Posted by lyon13

Ok so I was able to get up to the other place and they had the other one out again and this time I had my camera with me.
Attachment 84619Attachment 84620Attachment 84621Attachment 84622Attachment 84623Attachment 84624Attachment 84625
They guy is going to get back to me about the price and I can't tell where it was made only that it was made in 1944

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M47C is the mark for BSA Shirley - I have one from 1944 too

nice!

the bore looks like it has some pretty sharp lands and rifleing. but you might want to clean it up further.fouling and all that. then I would take a 30 calibre bore brush, wrap it with ooo steel wool and dip in some valve grinding compound, oil based, and run it through the barrel a few times . and look to see if it cleans up. just clean it up, dont make it a .577 caliber wildcat

its a nice rifle, they typically go for thst kind of money after tax and the ncis background check. typical tax on pleasure.

Don't put anything radical down the barrel. Get a good brush, or more like several and get to work. You may be surprised and it comes clean, I've seen it several times. If you stuff a .30 cal brush wrapped with something down the barrel, it may become jammed. I had that happen too. Stainless steel brush and oil...and get scrubbing. The rest of the pics aren't much use except to show us it's a full wood #4.

I concur with Jim about the strongest paste I would put down there would be Iosso and even then not work it to much, thing is they were fired with mercuric primers the salts were never really gotten rid of in any hurry by boiling the barrel straight afterwards besides there were plenty of others being produced and repaired so keeping the bore mirror like was not a big priority. I think the service life of a 303 rifle in WWII being in action up the front line was something like 2 weeks in WWI it was just a matter of days

Ok so the one with the rack number is Canadian that I know for sure and the other one is English. From what I am told the desirability of enfeilds puts Canadians somewhere around the middle of the road and but what I am told the English ones are kinda low end, is that wrong or am I on the right track?

I think you need to get the best condition one. Especially if you want to shoot it regularly. That means good head space; good rifling and matching number's.
The Longbranch rifle looks good. The BSA looks like the bolt has been replaced and re-numbered. (traces of filing around the stamped area) That's not necessarily a problem if it's been done properly, but would affect value a bit.

Respectfully sorry to disagree to a small degree lads, if I might be so bold but if the bore you are talking about is thread 17, photo 1 (I might have missed something of course) then in my humble opinion don't waste more that 50pence buying brushes or paste or oil or anything else. It is what it is, a rusted out bore. And while grinding paste, bore scrubbers reverse cone machine gun scrubbers might make it shine a tad more, any further scrubbing is a waste of time. Worth remembering that abrasive cleaning is simply metal removal - it's a metallurgical fact. By definition, you will clean it but that corrosion is the same stuff that's eating away at your car body.

Accept that it is what we call in technical language, 'shagged'. There is a further stage to that, one we call 'totally shagged'. What I would do is take it for what it is and give it an accuracy test. If it gives a group that falls within the accepted accuracy criteria, then use it and clean it as you would do any rifle. If not, don't touch it with a barge pole. There's every chance that it WILL group well. I had a beaten up, corroded and almost shot out No4T with a barrel like a sewer and it shot well

I agree with peter.

my recomendation to use a brush/ steel wool/ valve grinding compound is part of a last ditch effort.

I should have reccommended pushing this combination through the bore maybe 5 times maximum. if that does not clean up the mess then forget about it and shoot it. have fun

suprisingly even a worn out barrel may shoot well, but only for a while. try and experiment.

My inclination in using Iosso/nylon brush was just to knock a fraction of the gunk out of there, other pastes out there that will wear the barrel out faster that you sliding down a gravel hill in your shorts stay clear of those like JB's most of mine have varying degrees of pits and bumps but shoot well the 1916 is a bit tired but it only gets shot once a year.

I use Iosso on my F class barrels occasionally to get rid of hard to remove carbon if the carbon remover will not move it and at $1000 a pop per barrel I am not going to put crud down there that's going to make a sewer pipe out of it in short order.

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Originally Posted by enfield303t

Should you have a condition such as a addictive personality my advice would be...don't start!

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I bought a #4 in 2006 ...... Ended up with 24 mixed SMLE/No1/No4 ..... When Dad passed last year I found an SMLE, a No4 Long Branch and a No5 in his stuff.

Might have to thin the herd ...... but I don't wanna!!!:thdown:

So I just had this pointed out to me 303 is almost impossible to find in stores and is kinda pricey online. But while doing some poking around online I round the Ishapore 2A1 an enfield that was designed to fire 7.62x51. So what is the Ishapore 2A1 a in my case a more economic way to get an enfield?

yes, the Ishapore rifle is typically cheaper and the 308 ammo is cheaper, more plentiful and with enough variety that you can pretty much buy loaded ammo off the shelf and get your rifle up and shooting accurately almost emediatly.

and reloading opens up vast additional capabilities.

but some would argue that its not the .303

and you have discovered that the 303 ammo is expensive and availability is limited and the variety loaded or reloaded is also limited. Some would say a greater challenge.

sporterized or not? if its ALL wood and matching numbers thats an ok price id take it. if its sporterized maybe 200

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Originally Posted by mac2017

sporterized or not?

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Not I hate when people do that to rifles and I would only buy one if I was certain that I could get it back to mill spec

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Originally Posted by lyon13

So I just had this pointed out to me 303 is almost impossible to find in stores and is kinda pricey online. But while doing some poking around online I round the Ishapore 2A1 an enfield that was designed to fire 7.62x51. So what is the Ishapore 2A1 a in my case a more economic way to get an enfield?

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The 2A1 is a great gun and where I live nuts for price. I think more were imported into the US than Canada as they seem to be at a premium price up here.

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Originally Posted by lyon13

So what is the Ishapore 2A1 a in my case a more economic way to get an enfield?

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Yes...for you.

While a 2A1 is an Enfield you can't invoke Rule .303 with one. Rule 7.62x51 just doesn't sound the same. Get a No4. There is still plenty of HXP .303 from the CTD deal that pops up for sale occasionally.

I shoot 3 Enfields. One is an Ishapore SMLE MKIII. Apart from a new barrel and new wood it is original :madsmile: The next is a Savage No.4 Mark 1* in near perfect condition and the last is an Envoy in like new condition.
As you will see I use both 7.62x51 in the Envoy and .303 in the others. Here in the UK I find that .303 can be purchased cheaper than the 7.62 (.308) It doesn't affect me as in the last 30+ years I have never bought factory ammo (except .22 LR) and the two rounds in question cost the same to reload. I use the same powder type (Hogdon 4895) and weight (43 gns.) in both.
The funny side is when I renew my Firearm Certificate the enquiry office doesn't understand why there are no entries in the Ammunition Purchased section. Peter Laidler will know about this. The quality of firearms officers has taken a dive since Peters day.