17-4-29 M14 Picture of the Day

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Picture of a Marine walking point for his unit during Operation Macon, 1966 Vietnam

9 MARINES was a US Marine Corps unit
3 MAR DIV was a US Marine Corps unit
Primary service involved, US Marine Corps
Operation MACON
Quang Nam Province, South Vietnam
Location, An Hoa
Description: Operation MACON began when two VC companies ambushed one Marine company on a routine search and clear mission NE of An Hoa. An Hoa was to be the site of an industrial complex and was politically important to the GVN and hence the military. By the end of the day, III MAF developed the operation that normally consisted of a single battalion-size force but for a few days had five battalions. There were three phases to the operation which finally concluded on 27 October. The operation claimed 380 enemy KIA versus 24 US KIAs and 172 WIAs.

With the proper rifle for doing business...

Not the most enviable position, a friend was a forward scout in VN all he says about it is they had a few hair raising do's on his tour.

I can believe that. Lately I've started addressing the VN-War reading lots of personal accounts and essays, plus random stuff.
Walking point must have been a thing for few, but done by many.

Ovidio some books I have & good reads for you some which I have read some 2-3 times,

Marine Sniper 93 kills Carlos Hathcock
Silent Warrior (sequel to the above book)
13 cent Killers The 5th Marine Snipers in Vietnam
Dear Mom a snipers Vietnam

others of interest for you;
SAS Sniper Rob Mayor
Sniper One
With British Snipers to the Reich
Shooter Gunnery Sgt Jack Coughlin
Stalk & Kill the sniper experience
The Last Wolf By Cox
Sniper One on One
Sniper on the Eastern Front
Ed Kluger Dead Center a marine snipers two year odyessy in the Vietnam War

Good list.
Dear Mom a snipers Vietnam
Reading that one presently.

Thanks Cinders. A few of them are on my list too, all in English.
I read We Were Soldiers Once translated, but I felt it was missing something, so I bought it in english and got the real thing.
Since then, I never ever bought a translated book if the author was English tongue or German.
If I may suggest a book that really made me think this year, that would be, among many others, that would be "What It Is Like To Go To War" from Karl Marlantes.
I read his Matterhorn when it came out and liked him a lot.
In this book he addresses lots of things that made me think much.
Books are my other great passion.
I don't know if I spend more money for guns and shooting or for reading.........[COLOR="black"]

---------- Post added at 10:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------


"Good list.
Dear Mom a snipers Vietnam
Reading that one presently."

I'm reading a book about Roman history, but in queue I have right now "Dead Center".
After Hithcock's Marine Sniper, I'd like to read something else about snipers over there.

"A Rifleman Went to War" by McBride, WW1 sniping. He also wrote "The Emma Gees" both books first hand account of an American ex-National Guardsman in the Canadian Army

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Originally Posted by Ovidio

I can believe that. Lately I've started addressing the VN-War reading lots of personal accounts and essays, plus random stuff.
Walking point must have been a thing for few, but done by many.

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Actually the individual walking point had a better chance of survival in an ambush. The VC or NVA would let the person walking point pass through the ambush zone and await the main body of troops to enter the ambush zone before springing the ambush. If that happen the individual walking point was not doing his job, if he was good he would be able to spot the signs of an ambush or boobytraps. But that would open him up to receiving enemy fire earlier which makes things a bit sticky to say the least.

--fjruple

Was the NVA/VC as good at jungle fighting as the films would have us believe or were they no better the U.S. and Australian army?

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Was the NVA/VC as good at jungle fighting as the films would have us believe

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Are you kidding? Read about them, you'll see...

If you read a book by Robert Elford called "The Devils Guard" it will put you right in the spotlight F10 on just how good the VC were well before the USA decided to have a go, who was fighting them then well the French F L and who joined them well soldiers from the Eastern Front German SS soldiers whom fought them with the same tactics the VC used, its a bl**dy gruesome book but leaves you in little doubt about the VC as a fighter.

I liked the story of the trouble the French had resupplying outlying forts because the convoys always got ambushed. The Germans solved that by stopping at the first village along the road, rounding up the women and kids and tying them to the trucks. When they got to the next village they replaced them with new ones. No ambushes :)

I've read Devils Guard 1 and 2 but have not read the 3rd. Awesome read.

Semper Fi
Phil

Another great read about the Franch in Indochina is Street Without Joy, from Bernard B. Fall.
A must!

The reason that I asked the question in post 10 is because I've heard it said, more than once, that the Japanese weren't half as good at jungle fighting as people think they were.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

The reason that I asked the question in post 10 is because I've heard it said, more than once, that the Japanese weren't half as good at jungle fighting as people think they were.

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In the early part of the Vietnam War (US involvement) the VC were pretty good a lot of their cadre had experience fighting the French and before that the Japanese. Ho Chi Minh was supported by the American OSS in WWII fighting the Japanese. By the time the US got involved in the late 50's and early 1960's the VC had been beating up on the South Vietnam forces which requested SF support and advisors from the US using COIN operations. By after the Tet Offensive the VC had been pretty much killed off. The NVA pretty much took over from there. But I digest. Against untrained, undiscipilined conventional ground forces without air or artillery support they were pretty good.

--fjruple

Since I found the 2 Devils Guard books so interesting, I had to get the patch.:thup:

Attachment 83510

Semper Fi
Phil

I am quite sure that the 39th Battalion chaps who were at Kokoda in those early days would beg to differ with the summation the IJA soldier was not that good at jungle warfare, two books I have read and in my library that are worth a read are "The Jungle is Neutral" By F. Spencer Chapman or "Green Armour" By Osmar White written in the first person by the ones who were there they are both good reads.

Nope the ones whom were there at the pointy end know the score what did Hal Moore say "Where the metal meets the meat.".

I have heard British veterans state that in their opinion the Japanese soldier wasn't as good at jungle warfare as people often believe.

What I've heard was that the sheer brutality of their training made them accustomed to discomfort and the psychological indoctrination they received left them with a fear of the dishonor of failure and a resultant fatalism. The result was that they bore up well under the hardships of the jungle and were expected to do so by their leaders. That didn't make them supermen. But the facts that the jungle was such a hostile environment and that Americans were more humane to their own men and didn't expect them to live in inhumane conditions may have given the Japanese an initial edge. However, when one side is focused on giving their lives for their country and the other side are focused on obliging their enemy more than giving their own lives, it seems to make for a difference in the long run.

Bob

I remember before the last Gulf War they made out in the U.K. media that the Iraqi Republican Guard was made up of some sort of "super soldier" and that there was going to be a "mother of all battles". In reality I don't recall the Republican Guard giving the coalition too many problems. If it did it wasn't reported on U.k. news.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I remember before the last Gulf War they made out in the U.K. media that the Iraqi Republican Guard was made up of some sort of "super soldier" and that there was going to be a "mother of all battles". In reality I don't recall the Republican Guard giving the coalition too many problems. If it did it wasn't reported on U.k. news.

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The same thing happened here in the states. Our local media types kept on calling them the "Special" Republician Guards. They were "supermen" against unarmed civilians but against modern US/Brit forces they were were just so much cannon fodder. I had the chance to tour the Basra battlefield just after the battle all of their tanks were all dig in but that did not help. The DU rounds just passed through them like butter. The older T-54/T-55 tanks seem to hold up better than the later T-62/T-72 tanks. The T-54/T55 would just burn. The T-62/T-72 would all have the turrets blown off them. I was just amazed what those DU rounds would do.

--fjruple

Lets not forget what the A-10's, Spectre's, Blackhawks and Abram's did the them there was just no way they would have won but in reality they just did scorched earth with the oil wells which I think they got Red Adair to extinguish.

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

I have heard British veterans state that in their opinion the Japanese soldier wasn't as good at jungle warfare as people often believe.

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I would suspect that those British veterans may have been blokes who served in Burma from 1943 after Orde Wingate took over and after. Wingate worked hard turning the British Army in India into jungle warriors for the Burma campaign.
I had the honour of knowing one old Sapper many years ago who served in India and Burma from '42 till war's end.

I think Orde died in a plane crash during the war, he used guerrilla tactics very effectively behind the Japanese lines.

Here I suggest Donovan Webster's "The Burma Road".
Absolutely interesting.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

I think Orde died in a plane crash during the war, he used guerrilla tactics very effectively behind the Japanese lines.

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He did indeed His aircraft, a B25, crashed in India in 1944. Originally buried there, surprisingly, he now rests in Arlington National Cemetery.

Orde Wingate was an interesting character but the man that made the difference for the British and Indian army in Burma was General Slim, perhaps the finest general officer of WW II.

Jerry Liles

Wingate was known for various eccentricities. For instance, he often wore an alarm clock around his wrist, which would go off at times, and had raw onions and garlic on a string around his neck, which he would occasionally bite into as a snack (the reason he used to give for this was to ward off mosquitoes). He often went about without clothing. In Palestine, recruits were used to having him come out of the shower to give them orders, wearing nothing but a shower cap, and continuing to scrub himself with a shower brush. Lord Moran, Winston Churchill's personal physician, wrote in his diaries that "[Wingate] seemed to me hardly sane—in medical jargon a borderline case."[69] Likewise, referring to Churchill's meeting with Wingate in Quebec, Max Hastings wrote that, "Wingate proved a short-lived protegé: closer acquaintance caused Churchill to realise that he was too mad for high command."

Wingate and the nine other crash victims were initially buried in a common grave close to the crash site near the village of Bishnupur in the present-day state of Manipur in India. The bodies were charred beyond recognition, hence individuals could not be identified under medical practices of the day, as identification from dental records was not possible. Since seven of the ten crash victims, including both pilots, were Americans, all ten bodies were exhumed in 1947 and reburied in Imphal, India and yet again exhumed in 1950 and flown to Arlington National Cemetery in Virginia for reburial. The exhumation was possible courtesy of an amicable three-way agreement among the governments of India, Britain and the United States, and in accordance with the families' wishes.