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I'm a newbe that needs some assistance with an M48. Questions I have are:
Does the Letter before the serial number have any significance? One I'm looking at is K58771.
Is it possible to determine DOM by the serial number?
I have seen on previous post pictures "PREDUZECE 44" I am looking at one(see pic) that is stamped in non-english letters. Any extra significance in that?
Thank you for your knowledge and assistance to a rookie.
Pete
Welcome to the Forum.
Are you able to post some pictures, please, because it would be a great assistance, for members, in determining exactly what you have.
There should be a thread somewhere on this Forum giving advice on posting pictures which may be helpful to you.
I have a M48A, but not that up on Yugo Mausers. I'll check the book in a little bit and see what I can find out.
The letters before the serial numbers are a prefix. It is part of the serial number. They would start with 00001 and then work up to 99999. If they needed more numbers, the prefix comes in, A00001-A99999, then B00001-B99999 and so on. Some would start with the A prefix, just depends on the country. Some countries also assign the prefix blocks to certain times or manufacturers so it may not mean that many rifles were produced prior. It isn't real helpful generally to tell when the rifle was made.
I have downloaded the photo instructions and am looking it over. ThanksQuote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------
I presently am looking this rifle over. Price is $300, trying to determine if priced a little high.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
The value really depends on the condition, not the year it was manufactured. Earlier ones will have milled floor plates. Later ones will have stamped floor plates. I've never noticed this to have a large impact on value either but I imagine the milled type would be preferred by most.
$300 seems to be a good average these days. You won't find many in decent condition for less than that. $400 is about the max for one that looks unissued unless it's a Mitchells collector grade, they price them around $500 but its still only worth what it's worth based on condition so I would never recommend paying Mitchells premium. You can find beat up ones for $200-$250 and really bad ones for $150 but there really aren't many really bad ones.
Isn't this the name of the factory in Yugoslavia where the rifles were made and refurbished? It's on some of their bayonets as well if memory serves me correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by cpdpad16
I did read somewhere that they switched to English style letters after a certain date? Is anyone able to confirm this, please, and provide a date if correct?Quote:
Originally Posted by cpdpad16
In regards to Yugo M48s, it is not a prefix... but a batch number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
They are only present on the first 100,000 M48 rifles, then was dropped and just the numbers were given per model from that point on. The "K" indicates that rifle was in that number batch. From the alphabet in Bogdanovic's book, would seem to be the 13th batch (judging the example he made in the book).
With M48s, they did somewhere around 52,000 to 53,000 rifles in the first year of production (1950). Your serial number works out to 1951 production, which was about 92,000 rifles. There are some discrepancies in the production numbers, which is mentioned in Bogdanovic's book.
My M48A does not have a prefix... and is the 51239 M48A rifle produced. Works out to 1953 production.
Thanks so much guys for all the help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Screwball
Pete
You'd be surprised... Here in Texas at a gun show a few weeks back some old guy was trying to pass one off as a 'Yugoslavian WWII K98' and asking $900 for it. He also had a couple of nice Lee-Enfield's that were decently priced, but at figures if he was trying to gouge people on a M48 and lying about what it was, I wasn't going to take a chance on anything else he had.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
I've heard that a lot of re-enactors were using them as German K98's because they can no longer get K98's. Mitchells doesn't help matters when they hint at the same thing. doesn't justify running up the cost. I rarely get surprised at what some guys are trying to get out of their mis-labled things. I got in a mild argument with a guy who had an early Swiss Rifle he was trying to pass off as a K31. I didn't make any headway so I left him alone.
I think that some of the confusion may creep into the Yugo post war M48 being WW2 because Yugoslavia also refurbished WW2 K98s, post WW2, and not everyone knows/is aware of the difference between the 2. Didn't some M48s use up some left over WW2 parts which adds to the confusion even further? Post war Yugo made military kit often seems, to me, to be well made but massively under valued by people in general.
I believe you're exactly right. I saw one of those refurbed K98s posted just recently by a reputable dealer. The ring had been scrubbed and the torches/wheat Yugo crest applied, similarly to the VZ-24s that were refurbed into M24/52? /52C? Something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
One of these days I hope to stumble into a copy of the Bogdanovic book.
Mike
They did refurbish K98's after the war but the M48 is a completely different rifle that looks similar. Uses an intermediate length action so while some minor parts might be interchangeable between the two, none of the major ones are.
People have had trouble with stocks as well with regards to the length. Was the M48 stock slightly shorter than the K98 stock?
I do have a copy of the book which I think you refer to but unfortunately I don't wish to part with it. Is the book hard to get hold of now?Quote:
Originally Posted by micharl
Used copies are advertised in the $100 - $600 range. New copy from used book dealer, $2600... plus $3.99 shipping. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
I don't know that the stock is shorter but they are not interchangeable with the K98. They can be used with the M24 or 24/47.
I only paid around £25 for my book about 2 years ago; it's lucky that I bought it when I did.
[emoji23]Quote:
Originally Posted by micharl
I got mine prior to my rifle arriving (was in storage, and the seller was finding a house). Was about two years back, and it cost me $19.95, plus shipping.
Found it at a small book seller's website, and had a few in stock. Should have bought another as an investment. Instead, mentioned it on whatever forum I was talking about it on, and a few people got it at a realistic price. I would say around $100 is still worth it, as the info in there is great (not just Mausers, but other Serbian rifles).
Here are some pictures of a Yugo refurbished K98 with all the typical markings etc. Although it is U.K. deactivated I believe that the dealer that I purchased it from, back in 2001?, obtained a batch direct from military storage in Yugoslavia. Obviously the dealer did the necessary work to it for it to comply with the U.K. deac laws/regs in force at the time but other than that nothing else much has happened to it since leaving storage in Yugoslavia. All that I have done to it was to clean it and remove the last few remnants of Cosmoline and to fit a fore-sight hood plus cleaning rod. The bayonet, I purchased early this year and perhaps unusually doesn't have a serial number on the bayonet it's self but does so on the scabbard.
Does anyone know the significance of the "X" scribed into the pistol grip near the trigger guard, please? Are the large numbers on the side of the butt stock a Yugo or German marking?
Thanks for any additional information.
The large stock numbers are Yugoslavian. Germans didn't do that. X looks faint, could be a German mark but if so, no idea of meaning.
When it explicitly says 'M48A' on the receiver, there's no room for confusion...Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Well, it's nice to believe that but with Mitchell's Mausers around advertising the things as such and plenty of people willing to give them their arm and left leg for one against all rational thought, it's going to be around.Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76
Seriously, when someone picks up a magazine at the grocery store and they see that nice shiny ad and it tells them they can own a piece of real history, they believe it, they don't know.
And the Post War Yugo bayonet which is pictured in my post 20 is occasionally advertised as being WW2 vintage, perhaps because it has a 44 marked on the blade.
This reply is entirely incorrect, concerning Yugoslav serializing which, quite frankly, was chaotic at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aragorn243
The letter prefix indicated the purchase order that rifle was part of. It could have been applied when the rifle was made, applied later, or changed if made for the 'shelf' and sold as part of a later order.
That is why the serial numbers (excepting only true 1st model M48s which were all straight run for the military) are useless for dating post war Yugoslav rifles.
Actually, there's a LOT of room for confusion, just not with German Model 98s.Quote:
Originally Posted by amadeus76
The Yugoslavs made M48A rifles, which added a stamped magazine floorplate as the only difference, from 1952-56, from then on, they made model M48B rifles, which added a number more of stamped parts.
The thing is, the Yugoslavs have retained the M48A rifles as the best of the breed. Therefore, virtually ALL M48A rifles in North America are in fact, M48B. Confused yet? The tell is in the trigger guard. The M48, & M48A will have milled trigger guards. The M48B has a trigger guard/magazine well made up of an assembly of stamped parts welded together. There is a rib running around both sides of the trigger guard.
In the second photo, the M48 & M48A milled guard is above right. The last image right shows detail of the ribbed guard.
I hope that helps.
One more note. The cutaway drawing in Branko's book shows an M48B but identifies it as a model A. That caption is an error.
Attachment 84397 Attachment 84398 Attachment 84399 Attachment 84400
According to Branko's book it wasn't just ex German army model 98 Mausers that the Yugoslavs refurbished post WW2; there were other variants too some of which had been captured by the Germans who did their own mods/refurbs to the rifle.