1942 long branch DP rifle with a few oddities

I picked up this 1942 Long Branch no.4 mk1 * from a local classifieds newspaper, the owner stated that he had owned this rifle for years , used it for hunting etc. from the pictures that he had sent me i could tell that the barrel was uncut but the stock was sporterized, so i figured that it would make a great project to bring it back to its original configuration, until i go to pick it up and find the dreaded DP stamp. I decided to buy the rifle regardless as the price was "right". i get home to give it a closer look and find DP on the stock , Butt socket and on top of the receiver, the barrel is proof tested for civilian sales and has "surrey" stamped on top of the barrel. From what i have learned "surrey" was the mark of a Canadian company that sporterized the rifles post war. the top of the bolt handle i see NZ stamped , the magazine follower is stamped UCF but the magazine is savage stamped. To be honest i think this rifle has every marking ever made lol, being possibly the most mixed up rifle that i have ever seen. My question is how did a DP rifle end up being proof tested for civilian market ,sporterized by a Canadian Company and then sold to the public for a hunting rifle and been used and fired for the last 50+ years even happen . This just does not seem correct to me , any input from someone more knowledgeable than I please chime in.

It's got an unmistakeable large "D.P" stamped right on top of the receiver which tells me that the receiver, at least, was part of a drill purpose rifle at one time. I am not an armourer or a shooter, just a collector of militaria and a few U.K. deacs. I would suggest that someone has fitted a replacement barrel to the receiver at one time to make it a shooter again. Personally I wouldn't feel at all comfortable shooting it but I'm no expert so leave it to others to advise further.

They were simply surplussed off and the civilian market doesn't care about the markings. Shooting these is dangerous because you have no idea why it was done to DP status, just because the previous owner did or didn't doesn't matter. It's not a matter of having a gunsmith look at it and give his opinion, they were marked DP for a reason the gunsmith won't figure out. But in the end it's your rifle...so...

Make it a Man Cave Wall hanger ~ or part out what you can then drop saw the action in half, not sure if they were DP'd for just the barrel or bolt as those parts they could just replace if thats all that was wrong with it...................

I can see why it was a DP. I'll let it run a while..........

Is that barrel welded together from 2 ?

DP because of a fire?

Peter, is the clue in the final picture?

"Surrey" was applied to rifles sported in the UK.

DRP, thread 8. Nope! Baal, thread 6. No because it has been proofed.

Ah, Could it have been DP'ed because it bears obsolete/obsolescent part(s)? It certainly has one component on it that is a wartime expediency part......

The original bolt serial was barred out then 1001 stamped on it so now the bolt does not match anything plus a new No. has been stamped on the left side butt socket. Probably wrong but here to learn the 2 range flip sight was not much chop either.

The Mk2 sight is what I was getting at. AFAIK rifles didn't HAVE to be worn out to be turned into DP's; they might just have no longer acceptable parts on them.......I suppose it also depended on how pressing the need for DP rifles was, too.

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Originally Posted by Baal

Is that barrel welded together from 2

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No, that's a common enough machining mark. Looks like they came from different ends when they did it.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

No, that's a common enough machining mark. Looks like they came from different ends when they did it.

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Interesting. None of the Lee Enfields I've had looked like that.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

I can see why it was a DP. I'll let it run a while..........

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Is it the bolt head face not seating in the chamber? Looks to be a lot of space there, but maybe the bolt is not closed fully.

It is a Mk2 barrel and the piece you see in pic 4 is a sleeve shrunk onto the rolled Accles and Pollock barrel. These barrels were obsolete in 1952(? earliest mention that I can see). They were made by rolling the rifling in a lengths, and shrinking the nocks form on. There weren't any failures as such but the barrel part would work loose in the nocks form and pull away slightly. When this happened you could usually see where the positioning pin was loose too. Because the rifling in these barrels was not machine cut but rolled over a former the rifling always looked half finished and the bores were never as bright either. I only ever saw a few in service as they'd all been culled early on. The irony is that I did see a couple in NZ though! BAR and Baal were pretty close......

So nothing wrong with the body then....

Nothing that I can see to be honest DRP. Once I saw the Mk2 barrel I just saw a pad of write-off forms with a red Z stamped on them!

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

It is a Mk2 barrel and the piece you see in pic 4 is a sleeve shrunk onto the rolled Accles and Pollock barrel. These barrels were obsolete in 1952(? earliest mention that I can see). They were made by rolling the rifling in a lengths, and shrinking the nocks form on. There weren't any failures as such but the barrel part would work loose in the nocks form and pull away slightly. When this happened you could usually see where the positioning pin was loose too. Because the rifling in these barrels was not machine cut but rolled over a former the rifling always looked half finished and the bores were never as bright either. I only ever saw a few in service as they'd all been culled early on. The irony is that I did see a couple in NZ though! BAR and Baal were pretty close......

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If anyone in Canada finds an A&P fabricated barrel, please let me know so that I can at least offer to purchase it...

After re-examining the 4th,5th and 7th photos, I believe that this is actually a Long Branch 2 groove barrel...the '42 date and the poorly struck marking beside it are typical of an early Long Branch barrel.

The mark referred appears to be the change in machining from a concave? taper from the knox form to a straight taper for the barrel.

Guess it made sense, if they needed to make a D.P. to make up the numbers, to choose one with that unacceptable barrel.

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Originally Posted by Baal

. None of the Lee Enfields I've had looked like that.

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I have seen several to say the least...

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

They were made by rolling the rifling in a lengths, and shrinking the nocks form on

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So THAT'S what they are...! I HAVE seen them around here.

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Originally Posted by Lee Enfield

If anyone in Canada finds an A&P fabricated barrel, please let me know so that I can at least offer to purchase it...

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Now I'll keep watch, if found I'll grab it for you...it SHOULD be cheap enough. You'll want a full length barrel, not sporter?

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Originally Posted by Mk VII

if they needed to make a D.P. to make up the numbers, to choose one with that unacceptable barrel.

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I would think they just did in the whole thing rather than change a barrel after the rifles were in such great numbers. Waste of manpower.

Sportered in the UK in the 1960s. There were different grades of customisation and finish with barrels marked "Sussex', "Essex", "Surrey".

I do not know what company did this, some say Parker Hale, but I doubt it.

DP is the kiss of death for a shooter. Restore it back to a proper DP and clip the striker pin.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

Sportered in the UK in the 1960s. There were different grades of customisation and finish with barrels marked "Sussex', "Essex", "Surrey".

I do not know what company did this, some say Parker Hale, but I doubt it.

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Weren't these done in Canada?

They might well have been modified in Canada, I cannot provide any documented evidence either way. They are quite common here in Ontario.

I do note that they have Birmingham Commercial Proofs with a 1960s date code, which suggests to me that they were sold through the British Gun Trade. They appear to be refurbished as sporters and then proofed afterwards.

No need for commercial re-proofing for the Canadian market.

Globe Firearms in Vanier (Ottawa) sported various service rifles, including Lee Enfields.
They are famous for their Finn captured SVTs rebarrelled to .303 using SMLE barrels. Went past their building once, and in the yard was a large stack of arms chests, and a good sized pile of SVT muzzle ends. Finn SVTs and new replacement SMLE barrels are worth a lot more nowadays than Globe 555 sporters...
I've never seen an A&P barrel - that I know of. Would certainly like to inspect one. I have seen a lot of No. 4 barrels with machining rings/steps left from contouring operations.

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Originally Posted by englishman_ca

No need for commercial re-proofing for the Canadian market.

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That's right.

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Originally Posted by tiriaq

I have seen a lot of No. 4 barrels with machining rings/steps left from contouring operations.

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That's what I was thinking this one was. I've seen a good number, not rare at all...

Thanks for all of the expertise guys , it has been much appreciated , i plan to get a stock set for this rifle and make it a wall hanger. such a shame because the bore is nearly perfect, i don't think i've seen a better 2 groove barrel in my life. on the plus side the box of winchester ammo that the rifle came with will run just fine in my 43 long branch or my BSA No 5 that are not DP's

Relegating this to wall hanger is being over cautious. I've got every faith in what Peter says about it being DP-ed for obsolete parts, rather than a fault;and, it's passed proof. Good to go in my book.

And I thought it was going to be because the bolt is a re-used replacement of perhaps questionable fitting. The traces of the original LB number can be seen under the "1001" on the bolt handle.