No4 Mk 2 bedding

I recently purchased an extremely nice example of an Irish contract PF series Enfield. When comparing it to my UF series rifle and my others I noticed the barrel does not have any pressure holding it to the forend at the muzzle.
I disassembled the rifle and I can see that I am most likely the 1st person to take it apart since it was built. It looks absolutely new although the seller said he fired a few rounds through it when he unwrapped it in the 90's.
When I remove the bushing it makes no difference. The bedding is tight otherwise and I can see the impression the barrel made in the forend by the muzzle.
My thinking is the wood. It seems rather dry. Is it possible for the wood to shrink or warp?
I am not planing on shooting this rifle but I do like having my rifles as good as they can be.

The wood has probably dried out over the years. Give it a few good applications of some raw linseed oil.

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Originally Posted by mr.e moose

The wood has probably dried out over the years. Give it a few good applications of some raw linseed oil.

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I have read that a 50/50 mix of turpentine and raw linseed oil should be applied.
Just on the dry inside or the entire forend?

Turpentine just acts as a thinner. I'd use raw linseed oil and let the wood soak in a tub of it for a day.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

I have read that a 50/50 mix of turpentine and raw linseed oilicon should be applied.
Just on the dry inside or the entire forend?

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As said, the point of the 50% mix is to ensure the oil penetrates deeply, the solvent/turps or whatever is added to the linseed, just acts as a rapid catalyst. Its more for finishing the wood than anything else.

In your case, I would remove the forend and feed it with undiluted raw linseed over a 24 to 48 hour period, inside and out, (top woods and butt too to ensure an even colour) then wipe off the excess and see how it fits.

This process can have miraculous effects in bringing dry shrunk rifle woodwork back to life.

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Originally Posted by mrclark303

As said, the point of the 50% mix is to ensure the oil penetrates deeply, the solvent/turps or whatever is added to the linseed, just acts as a rapid catalyst. Its more for finishing the wood than anything else.

In your case, I would remove the forend and feed it with undiluted raw linseed over a 24 to 48 hour period, inside and out, (top woods and butt too to ensure an even colour) then wipe off the excess and see how it fits.

This process can have miraculous effects in bringing dry shrunk rifle woodwork back to life.

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Thanks for the tips. This is what I am going to do. Then I will recheck the pressure at the muzzle.

Even in the factory the wood was soaked in warm oil overnight I think. It'll only take so much and then it was allowed to drip dry. Maybe you could show us this one after?

ricohman: I soak mine in a length of PVC pipe with an end cap cemented on. I often leave them soak for several hours and on a sunny day the black pipe heats up the oil if you stand it outside. If the bedding doesn't return to normal you could always lightly glue in a walnut veneer shim near the forend tip to get proper pressure there as an alternative to removing wood elsewhere.

Ridolpho

Good idea from Ridolpho. There were instances when the fore-ends were a bit low at the muzzle from new. But before you embark on what I'm going to tell you, make sure that it's not so low that the top handguard touches the barrel. If it does, .......

If all is well otherwise simply mill/cut a slot out of the front centre of the fore-end, approx 5/8" or so wide and back 1.5 to 2" or so. Now glue in a piece of suitable hardwood. All you have to do is to channel out the new insert until the barrel fits evenly along AND radially in the centre of the new channel AND has the required amount of lift Quite a common repair at our workshops

Here on the prairies it can get quite dry in the winter and humid in the summer. The best defense is a application of linseed oil annually. If the original owner unwrapped it and cleaned with solvents to remove all the oils it is probably drier than a popcorn fart. Not only does linseed oil nourish the wood but it helps to prevent warping.
If you still do not have around 6 # of up pressure my preferred method is to apply thin shims of cork at the tip of the barrel channel, it is a easily reversed fix. The issue might be that you have a warped stock
Once you have it apart as you reassemble it with the trigger guard reinstalled, check to see how the barrel sits in the fore stock. Take a piece of paper and loop it under the barrel and move it from the knox form towards the muzzle. If it binds left or right of the barrel the stock has warped to the side, if it binds on the bottom of the barrel before you get close to the end of the fore stock the wood has bellied down. Warped stocks are a PITA to fix but they can be fixed with some careful steaming and some clamps and a jig. You have to go a little bit further as the wood tends to spring back a bit.

Lots of info. I have my Linseed oil and when I get home tonight I will run a piece of paper under the barrel. And check it beforehand to see if the muzzle is hitting the top hand guard.
Hopefully the oil can somewhat restore the shape. The gun is otherwise as new and I hate to go hacking on something so original.
If I remember correctly, the barrel sits about 1/8 of an inch from the forend at the muzzle. I will take some pics and post them.

Sound advice, I restored an Enfield P1856 a couple of years ago, the wood had pulled away from the barrel in it was so dry and black with conjealed oil and dirt.

But after it was carefully refubished and linseed oil soaked, it came back to life over 24 hours, taking on its full original form and loosing about 150 years.

The Walnut revealing beautiful deep marbling that was totally hidden before.

Yep, if used the right way, it's almost magical in its effect.

Like Peter said check the barrel up lift for contacting the top front H/guard from memory there should be @5-6lbs up lift, this can be checked after you have done your paper thing with the rifle assembled put it in a vice (Jaws protected) or cleaning station upside down then with a spring weight or items that weigh that amount use a piece of string looped around the barrel. Slowly apply the pressure downwards whilst A) keeping an eye on the scale B) Watching for movement of the barrel from the bottom of the barrel channel (Now the top of the barrel).
Then when the target weight is reached ensure the top of the barrel (Now the bottom of the barrel) in no way touches the front top wood otherwise if it does it alters the flip (Harmonics) of the barrel at the most critical part the muzzle and this needs to be relieved (Top front fore wood) so it does not contact the barrel with 5-6lbs uplift pressure. I suggest you get a small scale for the activity

E Moose offered a quick fix which is okay short term and may be fine but cork is not a hard wood therefore will compress over time thus causing a loss in uplift you usually find things go south at the worst possible time like it degrades/breaks up on you halfway through a comp you can always find a junked fore end and practice cutting in the hard wood and doing radius's prior to attempting yours if need be. Also Peter neglected to state like he usually does for such stock workings use aircraft grade adhesive glue that way it ain't ever going to move.....Good luck hope it works out for you but if the linseed revitalizes the stock and it regains its required uplift and the barrel is centered in the tip then disregard the above.

Lots of info here, thank CINDERS. Hopefully the linseed oil helps out.
I applied the first coat using my hands. The wood on the inside sucked it all up immediately and I had to put on 2 more coats before any would sit on the surface. I gave the exterior a coat as well. After 1/2 an hour I wiped it all down and let it sit. This morning it has a nice satin sheen and I think tonight I can give it another coat. No idea if this is helping though.

Before pics
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...w4zcxdjh-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...qbtayzhs-1.jpg

You can see in this pic that the barrel did indeed have its required contact with the forend at some point in time.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...djv1vago-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by ricohman

You can see in this pic that the barrel did indeed have its required contact with the forend at some point in time

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Form here it looks to have been deliberately hogged a bit.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Form here it looks to have been deliberately hogged a bit.

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Just the pic. The seller unwrapped it from new. And with the grease still present under the front sight guard and along side the receiver and in the mag well, I don't believe he ever had it apart.
The forend cut is uniform and smooth. A piece of paper slide easy from the knox to the end of the forend. At this point I am doubting that the oil will restore this fitment. The gap seems to large.
I also think I am going to give my other rifles a treatment to prevent this from happening.

That furniture colour is just bang on a few pics of it on the rifle would give us a grand view of the whole set up. Thanks for sharing.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

Just the pic. The seller unwrapped it from new.

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Gotcha...

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Originally Posted by ricohman

I also think I am going to give my other rifles a treatment to prevent this from happening.

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You could try a wallpaper paste tray for your oil vessel and soak them...? Hold them down with a weight and pour it until it covers the wood? You're right, it sure won't hurt them.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Gotcha...



You could try a wallpaper paste tray for your oil vessel and soak them...? Hold them down with a weight and pour it until it covers the wood? You're right, it sure won't hurt them.

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That's a good idea. The wood seems pretty dry again tonight. I slathered the oil on heavy and I wait about 45 minutes and wipe all the excess off.
I may soak this thing good on the weekend if there is no improvement. I know some woods take oil, stain or whatever in very slowly. And there is only so much that can soak in.

No need to wipe it off after 45 mins, just let it sit, the wood will draw in as much as it needs, it won't go off or set.

Same can't be said for boiled linseed, that will set like concrete!

That's a lesson I learned the hard way when I was 15, refinishing my first rifle stock and mixed them up...

If you have a bunch of rags sitting around ,get rid of them. They may spontaneous combust.

Good point E not many people know that it can spontaneously combust if left scrunched up and soaked in the stuff...........

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Originally Posted by mr.e moose

They may spontaneous combust.

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We had storage rules for rags like that. Airtight containers made of steel...outside... Same for steel wool. Many don't know that will burn.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

We had storage rules for rags like that. Airtight containers made of steel...outside... Same for steel wool. Many don't know that will burn.

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A little steel wool and flashlight batteries is much easier than rubbing two sticks together to make a campfire. :)

I threw the paper towels in the garbage can, but I guess I don't want that going up in flames!
I'm going to give this a last treatment tonight and then see if it fits better tomorrow. If it doesn't I will sit it in the sun this weekend and try again.
Following that I will just leave it be. I think bedding this is a tricky affair and I really don't want to mess it up.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

If it doesn't I will sit it in the sun this weekend and try again.

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I might not do that...I'd put it somewhere warm but not in the direct sunlight...others might not worry...

The linseed oil did indeed bring the wood closer to where it should be. It was so close that I took some light sandpaper and gave the wood a few swipes where it meets the knox of the barrel. I hate to fiddle with touchy things like this but the barrel now seems to have the pressure it needs at the muzzle.
I can't believe how much the oil changed this wood.
Some pics. Yes I know the mounting the bayo is removing the finish, but its fun. As a side note, this rifle does have a few minor marks which include a small dent in the bottom of the mag. All of these were present when the original owner unwrapped it. I guess you don't know what you have until you look at it.
Also, this bayonet seems to really have a point and a better edge than the bayonet for my 1917 No1 MKIII.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...4w3khw8u-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ax64xfsg-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ejq3ciur-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...0d4ywo2d-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...dp7erio7-1.jpg

Put a few more coats of oil on. The wood has been neglected for a long time. Once it no longer soaks in you are done for another year. Light applications every year will help maintain it. Glad to see that our advise has helped.

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Originally Posted by mr.e moose

Put a few more coats of oil on. The wood has been neglected for a long time. Once it no longer soaks in you are done for another year. Light applications every year will help maintain it. Glad to see that our advise has helped.

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Will do. I am going to give my other rifles a treatment as well.
And thanks to everyone for the advice.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

Will do. I am going to give my other rifles a treatment as well.
And thanks to everyone for the advice.

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Ricohman: Here's my Mk I* linseed oil soaking tube. As I mentioned, on a sunny day it heats up nicely if I stand it in front of the garage. Glad the oil helped with your forend- that's a beautiful rifle!

Ridolpho

Don't sand until you are done nourishing the wood. If you take too much away from the knox form bedding you have to reduce the front collar and might wind up with too much up pressure at the muzzle. Patience is the key.

Off track a bit, but is that two different No9 bayonets. The top ones look polished blades while the bottom one looks like our later spec phosphated blades

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

Ricohman: Here's my Mk I* linseed oil soaking tube. As I mentioned, on a sunny day it heats up nicely if I stand it in front of the garage. Glad the oil helped with your forend- that's a beautiful rifle!

Ridolpho

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That's a great idea. And a lot cleaner than how I've been doing this.

---------- Post added at 04:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:45 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

Off track a bit, but is that two different No9 bayonets. The top ones look polished blades while the bottom one looks like our later spec phosphated blades

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It must be the sun and my cell phone. The blade is polished.
Peter, are these bayonets really that pointed or should they be dullish on the end like the sword type?

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Originally Posted by mr.e moose

Don't sand until you are done nourishing the wood. If you take too much away from the knox form bedding you have to reduce the front collar and might wind up with too much up pressure at the muzzle. Patience is the key.

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I just did a few swipes to smooth it out. I was wondering if it would tighten up even further in a week.
I still can't believe a simple application of oil brought the woodwork back into spec.
What did we do before the internet.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

these bayonets really that pointed

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Yes they are.

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Originally Posted by ricohman

Yes I know the mounting the bayo is removing the finish,

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I don't know who fed you that, but don't eat it. The amount of finish you'll remove will never be noticed. The finish get's beat up when you have the blade on for ages and are doing fire and movement and the bayonet training course. It's all the rattling and forcing that damages the finish.

It looks stellar now. Nice and about new...

Nice looking rifle.
I say Ridolpho is that a "Trumpeter" or a "Beeza" M/C

Yep....., that sharp at the tip. (thread 32 and 35) Don't forget that bayonets are primarily stabbing instruments and not knives as such.

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

Nice looking rifle.
I say Ridolpho is that a "Trumpeter" or a "Beeza" M/C

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Cinders: It's a '72 Bonneville set up as a bit of a "cafe racer" but all the original equipment right down to the Lucas "electronics".

Ridolpho

Ridolpho we had a chap whom rode with us on a 750 Trumpeter nice bloke but his bike could not compete with the rice burners we were on it was funny actually as when we did our usual run Friday/Sat night to Bernies Burger Bar at 02:00 in the morning to have our burger & fries plus extras we knew where he had parked his bike by the oil left on the ground where it had sat. Halycon days for me as a group of us used to play dodgem at 180+ kph on the freeway going passed cars at night on either side squatting down on the opposite side foot pegs so all they really saw was a riderless bike go flacking by.

Lost some good friends and was nearly a statistic myself 4 times only once was it my stupidity but right in the middle of Perth at 5 oclock Friday afternoon just laid my Z900 down, the pedestrian went against a Do Not Walk but I was going to fast as usual committed to the line grabbed a handful of front and high sided. :bitch: Though she did pay for all the damages but all those people had a great view of me and my bike sliding across St Georges Tce.........and I was not wearing leathers just shoes, jeans & T shirt yep young & bullet proof(not?)

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Originally Posted by CINDERS

me and my bike sliding across St Georges Tce.........and I was not wearing leathers just shoes, jeans & T shirt yep young & bullet proof(not?)

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I did that once too...still have traces of road rash 44 years on...

I ride as well. A few years back I rode my GS1150 Adventure from my home near Regina Saskatchewan to the Beaufort Sea at Dead Horse Alaska. My worst crash was on a bicycle however. I got caught up in a crash road racing last May. Dislocated hip and shoulder. Concussion, cracked pelvis and ribs. Busted lamina in my neck and back.
When people ask me what it's like to crash a road bike at speed I tell them it would be like jumping head first out of the back of a truck at 50kmh. Naked.