Remington 1903 Build..

Hi All, I've been jumping around the fourm looking for an answer but seem to be coming up short. Sorry if this question has been asked before but I need just a bit of help. Also, I'm new to the 1903 world so forgive my ignorance.

I just purchased a Remington 1903 that has almost everything except the rear site and stock. I'm trying to figure out what is the correct stock to look for for this rifle. When I ran the serial number it came up as manufactured in 1941 (SN 3301xxxx).

I keep reading conflicting information on 1903 vs 1903A1 vs C stock vs straight stock.. all vary confusing LOL. Even though I never intend to sell this rifle (my kids might after I die) I would like to have it as close to orginal as I can.

Thanks in advance!
Bill Baker

Welcome to the forum, give us a minute and the right guys will come along to assist you...

You need a straight stock and you will probably be forced to buy an 03-A3 stock. It is very hard to find early Remington wood but easy to find 03-A3 wood. Look for a stock with 2 stock screws. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

You need a straight stock and you will probably be forced to buy an 03-A3 stock. It is very hard to find early Remington wood but easy to find 03-A3 wood. Look for a stock with 2 stock screws. Good luck.

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Steve so it would be safe to say; if I wanted the wood it came with it would be a Type 7?
http://www.trfindley.com/origstmps/m1903guidea.jpg

Thanks,
Bill

You consulted a date of manufacture table that is wrong - the one you looked at lists ALL Remington M1903s as "1941 manufacture". In reality, only a relative handful, about 7,000 (out of 348,000 or so) were made that year. Your receiver dates to about November or December, 1942.

A correct stock would be a "straight", non-grasping groove with pins, not stock bolts, with an FJA stamp and a high hump handguard without a capsule-shaped fixturing slot on the inside. Such stocks, while not as easy to obtain as they were a few years back, can still be found. As BAR suggested, you can find a M1903A3 stock with pins, which would be an acceptable substitute.

ALL Remington M1903s had straight stocks* - the earlier ones (to ca. 3,030,000 or so) had grasping groove stocks, but all the rest had non-grasping groove straight stocks. When the Remington M1903 was being designed, there was some thought of making them 1903A1s, but it was quickly rejected. Although the M1903A1 with Type C, full pistol grip stocks had been adopted in 1929, the Remington M1903 was a "throwback" to a straight stock. This, by the way, was the start of the misunderstood and misapplied term "M1903 Modified" that you see used to describe later Remington M1903s - which was actually used by the Army to describe ALL Remington M1903s.

The "Type" nomenclature" used by T.R. Findley is another term that has no basis in fact. Findley also does a lot of business stamping bare stocks with fake markings

* - Actually, the M1903A4 sniper rifle with scope used with a Type C or Scant stock, but this obviously lies outside the scope (no pun intended! :D ) of this discussion.

Rick, Thank you! wow that is a whole lot of GREAT information and exactly what I was looking for. The Gun store I bought the rifle from told me he had a few straight stocks (good), straight stocks (broken) and some C stocks so now I can go back and see if he has what I need. I didn't want to do so until I knew what to look for. I really what to thank you and Steve for the help.

On another note: The Gun Store also had a 1903 A3 (03?) (also without a stock) with a milled slot on the receiver that he told me was for some adapter (that the Army had destroyed) that would allow it to become a semi auto or auto, I forget which he said, using a smaller round or something like that BUT at $600.00 was out of my price range. Reading here though I've not seen anything about something like that... I was kicking myself about not getting it.

The owner may have been showing you a M1903 Mark I. They were a special variant (but not particularly rare) which was made to have a pistol-type action inserted to fire a .30 caliber pistol round. It was developed too late for World War I and, after about 10-12 years in storages, most of the 100,000 devices made were scrapped. The rifles (with the standard bolts) were later issued.

Here's a link to some pictures of one:

Remington Arms Inc - 1918 Mark I Pedersen Device-Rifle Firearms Auction Lot-1604

Rick, Yup thats what he was talking about. But he seemed to think the rifle was rare and warranted as price tag of $600.00 with no stock, stock hardware or font sight. I guess its good I stood back from it. Thank you for the info and link.. WOW Estimated Price: $30,000 - $50,000 I'll have to keep an eye out for on at the swap meet LOL (joking).

The price in the link was for the Pedersen Device (the pistol-type insert). Over 100,000 Mark I rifles (which held the device) were made. Unless they have all the specialized parts (sear, trigger, cutoff, etc.) they are not worth much more (if anything than a regular M1903.

He's way high on the price, an incomplete MkI barreled action isn't worth that.

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Originally Posted by Randy A

He's way high on the price, an incomplete MkI barreled action isn't worth that.

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I'm now glad I'm poor now.... I offered $400.00 but that's as much as I was willing to go. Anyhow, I had bought 2 Mosins a day before and my wife might have killed me if I spent another $400 ~ $600.

Thanks!

---------- Post added at 09:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------

Thank you again :) I'm really thankful I stumbled on this group.

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:54 PM ----------

Thank you again :) I'm really thankful I stumbled on this group.

He was trying to score a big profit from your lack of any knowlege on the subject. That barreled receiver is worth way way lowers than that. $600.00! Holy crap! I'll bet it didn't even have the correct original barrel on it. Sounds like it's worth maybe $150.00.
Do not Ever buy anything, especially a firearm, that you don't know Anything about. Ever. And I mean Ever! Look before you leap.
Getting your hard earned money from you would be as easy as taking candy from a baby.
Most salesmen behind counters do not know a whole lot about all the firearms they are selling. They are salesmen, hired to push a product. Listen to Rick the Librarian. He is one of THE authorities on the subject of 1903 Springfields in the world.

Do not Ever buy anything, especially a firearm, that you don't know Anything about. Ever. And I mean Ever! Look before you leap.

Good advice ...someday I might even follow it!! :D

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Originally Posted by Randy A

He's way high on the price, an incomplete MkI barreled action isn't worth that.

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Yeah, that's what it seems like after everyone's help; glad I didn't have the money after all. I'm so glad I found this group! thank you all for your help and advice.

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Originally Posted by Fred G.

Do not Ever buy anything, especially a firearm, that you don't know Anything about. Ever. And I mean Ever! Look before you leap.
.

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Hi Fred, Yeah I'm starting to see that I might have got taken on the 1903 Remington I bought from him for $300.00 (had everything except the stock and rear site group.) Guess time will tell I'll post pictures when I get it after my obligatory CA 10 day waiting period and ill be in the Philippines for two weeks. I was thinking it was a good deal because a wreck costs well over $600 here. :banghead:

Did it come with upper handguard and all barrel bands? Parts add up fast.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Did it come with upper handguard and all barrel bands? Parts add up fast.

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Hi Steve, The only things missing are the stock, handguard, hand guard clips, rear site leaf / slide cap , trigger guard, follower anb floor plate. Everything else is there including the rear site base, upper and lower band assemblies. He does have some stocks that I will be looking at in about two weeks.

Good grief. You are missing the TG and floor plate w/ follower, stock, handguard, rear sight. You actually bought half a rifle. This dealer knows what he is doing and will not sell any of those parts cheap. I am not so happy with this deal.

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Originally Posted by Calif-Steve

Good grief. You are missing the TG and floor plate w/ follower, stock, handguard, rear sight. You actually bought half a rifle. This dealer knows what he is doing and will not sell any of those parts cheap. I am not so happy with this deal.

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Yeah, Its my fault though. I thought about walking out and thinking about it but my long time desire to have a 1903 and the tinker in my gave way to my better common sense side. Bright side is in a few months buying parts here and there I will have a shootable 1903 that I built with my own hands that I never intend to sell. I don't have buyers remorrse though for some reason, i'm actually excited - is what it is I guess - I'll just have to be frugal and patient in parts buying.

I've been looking at the correct version of stocks for this rifle on-line and notice that there are huge swings in price regardless of condition. I've seen them from 80.00 all the way to 450.00 what sould I be considering as a reasonable price range for a decent 1903 pins straight stock? thanks in advance.

Start bidding on Ebay and start visiting the big gunshows in your area. You will learn fast. One more thing, call DuPage Trading in Phoenix. Jim is a good guy and will try to help.

Thanks for the advice Steve, Checking out DuPage right now.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

A correct stock would be a "straight", non-grasping groove with pins, not stock bolts, with an FJA stamp and a high hump handguard without a capsule-shaped fixturing slot on the inside. Such stocks, while not as easy to obtain as they were a few years back, can still be found. As BAR suggested, you can find a M1903A3 stock with pins, which would be an acceptable substitute.

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Rick, I found a Scant "stright" stock looks like it had bolts though and not pins; not sure... Should this be acceptable for my 1903?

"Scant" straight stock is sort of a contradiction in terms! A "Scant" stock was one with a "semi" full grip stock; a straight stock was just that.

See pictures below:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

"Scant" straight stock is sort of a contradiction in terms! A "Scant" stock was one with a "semi" full grip stock; a straight stock was just that.
]

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But would it be appropriate to use with my [1942] 1903 Springfield (Remington)?

Will it fit and work? Yes; Is it original to the manufacture? No.

Rick, Thanks again.. I found a Straight stock with pins for $125.00 so I'll just get it when I return from the Philippines (if he still has it) it the gun shop doesn't have one cheaper. I was going to try and pick one up in the Philippines but I guess you can't bring USGI parts back in the country anymore.

Tell me all about it - the Philippines in early WWII is my "specialty". Had a Rock Island M1903 that a guy over there was willing to sell - but found out the same thing - no imports.

I visited Bataan and Corregidor in 2014 - a trip of a lifetime!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

I visited Bataan and Corregidor in 2014 g[/url]

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We go to the Philippines almost every year. Took my dad there 2009 we were at the other 00 marker

https://youtu.be/HZ_tkTS7Df8

Can't get the link to work. :(

Just use the last part in your browser...cut and paste after the slashes. Check your PM for a link.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

Can't get the link to work. :(

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Try this one:

https://youtu.be/HZ_tkTS7Df8

Rick, So I came across a 1903 Stock here are some pictures of it. How can you tell who its made by or if it for my year receiver? This stock is in good condition and I was thinking about getting it until I could save up the money for a 1903 Remington stock that I another member of the forum has and is willing to sell me.

This stock as several makings: near the cut-off area there is a EJA or FJA oe maybe a symbol and JA; on the bottom near the front trigger guard screw hole it look like a "P" in a circle; on the right side near butt are two set of four number.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ssl1w450-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by usabaker

near the cut-off area there is a EJA or FJA

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Isn't that an "FJA"? Frank J Atwood...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Isn't that an "FJA"? Frank J Atwood...

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Yeah looks like it does! I should have searched the forum first. Thanks

Either a Remington M1903 or M1903A3 stock (can't make out in the one picture you posted if there are "slots" for the 03A3 handguard ring or not.

Keep in mind that Frank J. Atwood (FJA) was not an inspector but the commander of the Rochester Ordnance District (which contained Remington).

Rick Thanks again. Since this last post I was able to locate and buy an early Remington Stock with pins that doesn't have the cuts for the 03A3 handguard ring. Now just need to find the High Hump handguard and the rifle is complete. Thank you!

I don't think your Remington would take a high hump hand guard.

Low hump, straight windage knob cut.

Usabaker is correct - Remington M1903s used a modified "high hump" handguard until the end of production.

Doesn't "modified" mean low hump?

Nope ... "Modified" was used by the U.S. Army to describe ALL Remington M1903s because they used a number of features different than the standard Springfield M1903 - a "straight" stock, high hump handguard, etc. as well as several other features grandfathered in. This was caused because Remington used the machinery and gauges that had been mothballed by Rock Island. It was felt that there would be too great a delay in changing the Remington design to reflect improvements made since Rock Island ceased production of M1903s in 1919.

A lot of people, including authors who should know better, used the "Modified" term to describe so-called "later" Remington M1903s. In any case, Remington M1903s continued to have high hump handguards until the end of production in early 1943. However, handguards tended to break a lot and they were often replaced with those with a lower or straight profile.

Rick, are you referring to Bill Brophy?

No, there were two other authors who use the term incorrectly. Brophy did not like Remington M1903s and only included information to please his friends. We have moved a long ways since his book was published in 1985.

Rick - Just out of curosity whould you happen to know what price range I should be looking at for a Remingtion/RIA High Hump Handguard? I've made allot of mistakes on my 1903 Bulid adventure and would like to avoid another.... Thanks!

There is a lot of bad advice on forums. The last living person I know with any professional standing in the trade gave up these daisy chains on the M14 Forum four years ago. It's amazing how little was known by those with postgrad degrees in ordnance engineering who actually formulated the policies in question long ago. Guess Crossman, Hatcher and Brophy really had no idea... Hmm...

Just and FYI, but when Remington began production of the 1903 it acquired all of the tooling previously used by the Rock Island Arsenal and made 350,000 of that pattern, a high percentage of which were Lend Leased to Britain. Stock dimensions are identical to late Rock Island production in all respects during '03 production with the exception of cost-cutting measures such as eliminating grasping grooves during later production and other minor production shortcuts.

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by oldcorps

There is a lot of bad advice on forums. The last living person I know with any professional standing in the trade gave up these daisy chains on the M14 Forum four years ago. It's amazing how little was known by those with postgrad degrees in ordnance engineering who actually formulated the policies in question long ago. Guess Crossman, Hatcher and Brophy really had no idea... Hmm...

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Not quite sure I'm understanding what you're saying?

Unless you're a published authority on these rifles it hardly matters.

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Originally Posted by oldcorps

Just and FYI, but when Remington began production of the 1903 it acquired all of the tooling previously used by the Rock Island Arsenal and made 350,000 of that pattern, a high percentage of which were Lend Leased to Britain.

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The official Lend Lease stats published by the Office of the Chief of Military History shows 64,003 '03s of all types - and that's the total for the entire British Empire (excluding Canada).

Are you operating with a novel meaning of 'high percentage'?

To clarify somewhat ...nearly all the Remington M1903s Lend Leased or bought by the British were below 3,075,000 or so. The British actually "paid for" their Remington M1903s because they had provided funds for the "start-up" costs of producing the Remington M1903. The New Zealanders got their share through conventional Lend Lease.

Rick, what do you make of a handguard with a slot cut in the bottom of the receiver end bottom?

https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...5&d=1501298105
https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...7&d=1501298614

High hump or straight profile? If high hump, a WWI or earlier Springfield handguard.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

High hump or straight profile? If high hump, a WWI or earlier Springfield handguard.

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Hi Rick, I honestly don't know how to tell a high hump vs anything else. I've read the descriptions and I 'think' I might but not sure. This I don't think is a high hump..
https://www.milsurps.com/vbpgimage.p...8&d=1501361360

I need the part of the handguard nearest the receiver. If a straight profile with that fixturing slot, it is a relatively uncommon early 1920s handguard.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

fixturing slot,

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I was really just curious what the "fixturing slot" was and what is it used for I've never seen a handguard with it. I'm still looking for a High Hump Remington and found a guy that has a bunch of handguards but is not a 'gun guy' so can't tell me what he has. I'll be going to go take a look at them next week i'm keeping my fingers crossed.