Overbore A5 mounting during WW1

With the mention of the mounting bracket having been developed during WWI on the advertisement for the Parker Hale Easyfix Telescope Sight Bracket for Service Rifles I am curious if there are any known examples, or at least mentions of the Winchester A5 scope being mounted over bore for sniper rifles?

I was under the impression that all british service rifles fitted with telescopic sights had the off set mounts to allow continued use of iron sights and stripper clips for reloading. This raises questions.

https://www.google.com/search?q=smle+winchester+a5+parker+hale&client=ms-android-att-us&source=android-browser&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjG_rypk_fTAhXjsFQKHfrADbUQ_AUICigC&biw=412&bih=604&dpr=3.5#imgrc=a6g-GfqkL4OBlM:

AFAIK there is reference to two different mount types used with the A5, but I have never seen an example of the easyfix type rail in use during WW1, nor do I know of anyone else who has seen such a beast, although I am aware of what it says in the old P-H catalogue.

Their is the whitehead bros. mount I am becoming near intimately familiar with, what other mounting solution was there?

---------- Post added at 06:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 AM ----------

Well, the add does say designed during. No real mention of use.

I don't think anyone really knows for sure - that's the problem with WW1 stuff - it is nowhere near as well documented as the No 4 (T) production history of WW2, for example. It may be that the other mount referred to (IIRC it's in the notes that accompanied the Pattern Room Collection of WW1 snipers which disappeared early in WW2) is indeed the easyfix mount, but we just don't really know. There are still many unexplained questions about WW1 sniping rifles & scopes. It is frustrating but at the same time makes collecting & researching them so fascinating.

Incidentally, there was an over bore claw mounted SMLE sniper produced late in WW1. It was produced by the Periscopic Prism Co contemporaneously with the No3 (T)'s, & it is quite obviously a modification of the No3 (T) claw mounts to fit a SMLE receiver. The WW2 era Lithgow No1 Mk3* (H) T snipers are also essentially this, but they mount the rear base on the charger bridge whereas the WW1 type had it mounted on the receiver side wall in an equivalent location to a No4 (T) rear pad.

And considering the relative accuracy of the two rifles Roger, you'd wonder why they bothered to fit overbores or anything else to the SMLE after the P14 was available.

The base you mention Mecharius was probably either designed too late in WWI to have a chance of acceptance, or Parker Hale did not have the connections to get it considered by the authorities. The latter case is less likely I think as IIRC at least one of the Parkers was a noted marksmen who was involved with sniping in WWI.

Hi,
The base you mention was made by Parker Hale. As I understand it, Hale was ex-military a Sgt, and quite the shot. In their ad for the" base" post war, which you can find, just Google it, or it's at the Rifleman.UK.Org, and look in the old catalogues. They state or allude too at least, it's as used on WW1 snipers, I believe I've seen it on a used Smle sniper rifle 1916+ but how often? Other's would know better than I, about this I'm sure. Nice mount as it doesn't damage the rifle and it's relatively easy to reproduce.
Other Smle overhead mounts that I'm aware of :- are a Canadian Smle with an Aldis scope on it, in The Canadian War Museum. It use's solid block type mounts, or so I've been told. That's as used on the Ross, P-14, and Canadian Smle snipers, mounting the A5 Scope, but in pictures only no #'s.
There was also a smle OH mount installed, based on the french APX system, which screw's on the side of the receiver, a few of them were made up in the early war, 1915+ as I understand it from books only, it also used the French low power scope, then Aldis scopes retro-fitted later, again only as I understand it from books and some pic's.
I'll just mention this just out of interest, the Evan's Bros designed and fitted, a cast Aluminium one piece side mounted base. It fits an offset scope with a sliding rail Ring-set. The nice thing is, no damage is done to the rifle again, as It uses 3 available fixing points.
It would be easy to make up a ring-set assembly to fit whatever OH scope, if only for a repop.
That's my 2cents worth, I hope that's of some help, I'm doing the same thing but finding out facts is hard. Skennerton's British and Commonwealth sniper is worthwhile, I haven't found an affordable The British Sniper, and I haven't won the Library lottery yet. Other books mention bits here and there, Robert Spiclauer German Scopes and Mounts 1914-1939, is on Kindle for about $2.00 and has a section in it. Most other stuff is either on this site, or a good Google search for pic's, and bits in other books on Kindle.

The advert said the Parker Hale mount was "designed by us...", but did not refer to any actual use in WWI. I posted that advert here a few years back, from my 1933 copy of their catalogue. I haven't seen it referenced in any of the books on the subject of WWI scopes and mounts, but perhaps because it was apparently not used, beyond some possible private purchases(?)

The Ross in the CWM that resembles an A5 fitting is a fake: it is a cheap Lyman or some such scope from about 1930. Not even the rings are correct. The rifle might have had 3/8 dovetail blocks fitted in WWI, but the fact that the barrel is uncut suggest otherwise as all the A5 fittings we have photos of show the barrel cut back 2-3 inches.

The Evans mount was featured here recently, but being mounted on the trigger guard it was subject to the wood "moving" like the Whitehead Bros. system.

On a Ross Mk III set up for a Winchester A5, where exactly is the rear dovetail block fitted?

If on the receiver ring, is it entirely on the larger rear part (nom. 1.5" dia), or partially on that rear part and partially on the smaller front part (nom.1.4" dia) with the dovetail block having a stepped base?

Or is it partially on the front part of the receiver ring and partially on the cylindrical rear part of the barrel reinforce (nom. 1.3" dia), again using a dovetail block with a stepped base?

Or is it partially on the cylindrical part of the barrel reinforce and partially on the tapered part, using a dovetail block with a base with a flat and a taper?

None of the contemporaneous photos that I've found are sufficiently detailed, but I get the impression that the rear block is mounted in front of the larger diameter part of the receiver ring.
Hope someone can help.

Well if you get an answer to your question please do share it! I've been wanting to set up a sympathetic Ross/A5 sniping rifle for years (accepting the chance of turning up something totally original is pretty much nil). I have a suitable rifle & scope but need the correct height dovetail blocks & the information on their correct positioning....

Well, the spacing is anyway only two possibilities from factory. I assume there is not an answer to this question, unless someone knows of an original sniper rifle anywhere?

Simple ... ;)

Type "a5 british scope" in milsurps search box in top right corner of site.

Results are amazing.

Regards,
Doug

Duplicate question/thread: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=70289p

Attachment 106396

Almost looks as if rear base was on barrel shank and not on receiver, would you agree?

I had some spare Winchester A5 scopes a few years ago and set them up as over bores on
a Ross, P14 and a SMLE with a Parker Hale type mount.
I think I got the mounts about right as they all shoot really well the Ross being the best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melanie_Daniels

Attachment 106396

---

So I looked again at this picture .. appears as if front base sits right at the middle of the handguard. Additionally and as previously mentioned, it also appears as if rear scope base sits on the barrel shank and not on the receiver. Finally, it also looks as if the rear sight has been removed (makes sense, given the fact that the front sight is also missing). The scope is mounted extremely low, of course this is possible with the Ross since it is a straight pull and therefore the bolt will not interfere with the scope when cycling the action.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 303 Collector

I had some spare Winchester A5 scopes a few years ago and set them up as over bores on
a Ross, P14 and a SMLE with a Parker Hale type mount.
I think I got the mounts about right as they all shoot really well the Ross being the best.

---

Very interesting. May we see some closer photos of the Parker Hale base? Is it marked as such?

There would have been much to recommend that base at the time. Had it been made with a more secure and permanent attachment the War Office could have had their precious charger loading and all the offset/overhead difficulties avoided.

Is the Ross front base screwed to the barrel or just soldered?

Is the barrel shortened and if not, have you found the front sight or muzzle to impinge of the field of view of the scope? Although your mounting is a bit higher than the WWI standard obviously, and the scope and bore axes would coincide only at longer ranges when the scope was angled downwards to a greater extent.

One can see how unfortunate it was that Dr. Common was no longer alive in 1914/15 or he would have swiftly produced something far better than what was fielded.

On the other hand, Sir Howard Grubb likely made some suggestions at the time as the "sniper menace" was all through the papers.

There must have been a reason for putting the rear base half on the barrel and half on the receiver ring as it would have been much easier to mount entirely on one or the other. Presumably to do with eye relief. The scope can indeed be slid in the mounts, but must positioned so that when pulled back against the front ring for the next shot it is in just the right position.

Incidentally, Frank Iriam mentions having his A5 fitted to a Ross he found in the trenches by the battalion armourer.

The Ross was a cut down sporter, I thought about restoring it then realised that there are no
spare parts in the UK. I had an old A5 scope so it seemed a good idea to turn it into a WW1
sniper.
I made the "Parker Hale" mount after seeing it in an old PH catalogue.
As I had 3rd A5 the P14 just followed on.

A few closer pictures.

May I ask if you sourced the blocks for the Ross or made them?