Early Sten MK II, Wrapped body

Hi all,

Vincent suggested putting some pictures up of my MKII as it may be of interest to some. Its an early UK deact, Fazakerly made with a serial number FB-27677, which I think falls outside the FB block of 1-10000 listed in Peters book.

B&T stamped mag housing with both a faint electro pencilled FB-27677 and a deeper stamp of just 27677. Lines Brothers trigger housing, a scattering of Broad arrows and stamps elsewhere.

any comments or thoughts gladly received.

Enjoy

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So, that one really is like muffler tube...a seam along one side.

The cheapest of cheap STENs!!

Other than the pictures in Peter’s STEN book, this is the first wrapped body Mk2 I have seen. You can even see the witness marks from the tooling on the body.

Nice bit of history :thup::thup: Thanks for posting the pictures.

One thing which should be noticed as I don't believe that it has been documented is that the washers welded to the side are there to support a cross bar welded on the inside.

Also the sheet material used to create the tube is a lighter Guage than that used on the trigger mech housing of the later guns.

In my view it shows how truly desperate they must have been to build the guns as I cannot understand how they would have passed any reasonable inspection protocol.

A gentle twist or squeeze would have immediately put one of the non reinforced guns out of action.

I honestly believe that the UK was on desperation street as far as weapons go after the Dunkirk and Singapore losses the amount of man power lost and kit would have been very hard to make up. Along with the u-boats sinking record tonnages of materials so desperately needed by her to carry on the war.
I feel those were the darkest days for Britain........

I have heard it stated that the most vulnerable for the U.K. during WW2 was the month immediately following the Dunkirk evacuation. Luckily for us, Germany wasn't anywhere near ready or prepared, at this time, to mount a large seaborne invasion across the channel even if it is only about 20 miles at it's closest point.

The 'washers' tack welded on the side are to reinforce the change lever. I won't go into the mechanics of it too deeply, but it had to be done in order for the wrapped casings to accept the geometry of the standard change lever via the position of the detent balls that retain it in the A or R position. What crossbar welded on the inside? (thread 5, line 1)

Look at the gun and smile......... but you can have a blued, polished walnut stocked Thompson gun for £55 using valuable overseas funds and, paid for, up front, in gold. Or a Sten gun for £2:35p. But you can only kill a man so dead

I'll see if I can get a better view of the interior, but it looks like there is a bar welded across the opening above the change lever, I'm guessing that it protrudes outside of the sheet metal work and is covered by the big dirty blob of weld at the top of the "washers"

Is this a normal modification ?

I really love this old deact, apart from the butchered bolt and barrel it has survived pretty much intact. really gives a good idea of how desperate it was at that time. Typical British stiff upper lip resolve and all that

Makes a nice comparison with my MK V and my sterling (in the other post) to show how technology and design improves along with the luxury of time and money

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

What crossbar welded on the inside?

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There’s a picture of it on page 300 of your Sten book. You call it a “bracing strut.”

The big ugly welds just above the washers hold it in place.

Yep - that's the beastie.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lugerfan

I'll see if I can get a better view of the interior, but it looks like there is a bar welded across the opening above the change lever, I'm guessing that it protrudes outside of the sheet metal work and is covered by the big dirty blob of weld at the top of the "washers"

Is this a normal modification ?

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The “strut” or “brace” also keeps the sear from over-traveling upward into the gun. So, I am guessing it was original. If it’s a later modification, there would have to have been some other way to keep the sear from over-traveling .

It is original, for exactly the reason you say. I couldn't quite understand what strut and where L-E was referring to as you can't actually see anything.

To be honest, I never ever saw one of these in service, only when I saw several hundred being broken up for parts kits and spares for the US. But I had the reports and papers from archives so was able to use the reports, look hard at the examples and inwardly digest. The main criteria was that eben though the body was fabricated, the component parts must remain interchangeable. Another was that the change must not increase the unit cost. One good idea put forward be Fazakerly was that the casing tube could be punched out flat and rolled round as per usual. But the cocking handle (the c/h) slot could form the main part of the 'join' and the only welded parts of the join would be the short part to the rear of the c/h slot and the forward part. This weld could also retain the barrel nut insert.

I think that was Fazakerleys only sensible contribution to the war effort

Thanks Peter,

out of interest , am I reading the book correctly when it says the serial numbers to be returned in the FB range were FB 1-10000, if so can you tell from my pictures is my example (27667) not built to the faulty specification or were they just not very accurate with their records & it should have been returned.

thanks

These numbers were taken from the papers relating to these crap guns. But there was a MAJOR problem while these guns were being withdrawn. Due to the fact that the number was on the mag housing, hundreds of guns were being scrapped simply because they had a particular batch of numbers on the housing as opposed to a type of gun. It was the CASING that was duff and not the magazine housings! Like scrapping all Ford cars with defective 1600cc engines when you really ought to be scrapping the defective engines

I like it - good analogy :)

if anyone has comparison pictures of a later MK II showing similar detail please post them up, it would round this thread off nicely.

thanks all...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

But there was a MAJOR problem while these guns were being withdrawn. Due to the fact that the number was on the mag housing, hundreds of guns were being scrapped simply because they had a particular batch of numbers on the housing as opposed to a type of gun. It was the CASING that was duff and not the magazine housings!

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Interesting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lugerfan

I like it - good analogy :)

if anyone has comparison pictures of a later MK II showing similar detail please post them up, it would round this thread off nicely.

thanks all...

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Here's my old spec Mk2 (a later example), old post, but quite a few pictures to compare and contrast with yours.

https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=56537&p=361966#post361966

See if this works better My Mk2 Sten

Thanks Vincent, on my phone, haven't figured out how to do links properly yet!

Thanks for the pictures, quite a difference on the side view then. I like the way they have deactivated the bolt, much more sympathetic than my one.

Will drop you a PM with a question...

I have seen and possess many cut up examples of the wrap around sten which were released from Canadian service in the 1960s. They remained in service to the end, however, many showed the flaw in the design. There is a lack of support around the front of the trigger housing which allows the tubes tend to bulge there. When it bulges far enough, the tube is no longer straight and the bolt will drag.

There is a second type of wraparound sten which does not use the spacer washers around the change lever, but rather has reinforcing plates induction welded to the sides of the trigger housing to bring the trigger housing plates to the standard thickness and full strngth. There is one pictured on the top of p 300 in Peter's Sten bible. It is my belief that these did not fall under the recall.

I have also seen many many of the recalled serial range magwells renumbered and re-used. Waste not want not.