What's the opinion on these? I have a line on one at a decent price. Ty stock is kinda beat, but I have a Beech stock I can replace it with. As I look at possibly building a mock (T) I'm wondering if one of these might prove a good base?
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What's the opinion on these? I have a line on one at a decent price. Ty stock is kinda beat, but I have a Beech stock I can replace it with. As I look at possibly building a mock (T) I'm wondering if one of these might prove a good base?
Didn't they build some "T" rifles themselves? Or were they UK rifles and then they just ,maintained them? From all I've seen the rifles they made were serviceable...
Picked up one not long ago and as far as I can tell it is comparable in quality to British production. Given that they are relatively uncommon I wouldn't use one as a project rifle.
Ummmmmm.................:madsmile:
I agree, these are well built rifles and a nice nitch collection item. I also agree that it would be a poor choice for making a mock (T), as these are on the rare side of the spectrum. Do a auction site search and see how many of these you see for sale in 1-3 months. I think the results may surprise and enlighten you.
They are interesting pieces, don't believe I've ever handled one.
Made with sold off Fazakerley machinery I believe??
Folks--
I have a weird one. The rifle is clearly marked as a No.4 MK2 on the receiver and only has a "serial" # 0758 just to the right of the ejector screw hole. The only other markings on the receiver is a very small 59 on the right side of the receiver just below the rear sight and what looks like to be a G over a pair of flags over the letter "P" The buttstock has in large numbers 4/0578 and just behind the triggerguard is English arrow proprietary mark. Is this some sort of No.4 MK2 prototype or an early Pakistani No.4 MK2 assembled from leftover parts?
Thanks
--fjruple
Pakistan purchased the No4 making machinery from BSA. BSA were not permitted to make No4's after their wartime contract was curtailed but retain it on a care and maintenance basis (paid for by the MoS) for 10 years.
Thanks Peter, I didn't know it was BSA, I assumed Fazakerley as Pakistani production seemed to spool up after Faz spooled down.
Mentioned before, when I was out in India in 2014, I saw quite a few provisional Police still carrying No4's and the Sergeant with a Sterling, so they probably keep the old lathes up and running for them. I suppose Pakistan were pretty much in a simular situation.
Here is an article from 2015 with a couple of photos, the last being every armoureres nightmare, the conversion of a .303 to a rubber bullet firer:
Himachal Police to modify 303 rifles to fire rubber bullets
Gaurav Bisht Shimla , August 19, 2014
Finding it difficult to get rid of 303 rifles, the Himachal Police have now decided to modify the brutally-effective firearms that have remained synonym with the state police for more than a century.
Though old guns are the being replaced with modern weaponry, police still have more than 5,000, 303 rifles in its armory. These rifles, known for their aim and sturdiness, will be the modified to fire rubber bullets to disperse crowds at the time of rioting.
“We have drawn up a proposal to modify 303 rifles to fire rubber bullets,” director general of police (DGP) Sanjay Kumar told Hindustan Times.
“We thought instead of dumping these guns, these may be modified for some other purpose,” said Kumar while adding that the modified 303 rifles will be provided to the state police's riot control teams.
Police personnel feel that 303 rifles, which are not self-loading arms, weigh heavy, look monstrous and they hinder movement during critical manoeuvres.
Meanwhile, there is also a proposal to provide 303 rifles for training to special police officers (SPOs) who are deployed in villages along the Chamba border with Jammu and Kashmir.
The 303 Enfield rifles are now being replaced by the indigenously-manufactured INSAS rifles that are much lighter than these first World War-era guns. INSAS rifles were introduced in the army in 1994 but these too are being gradually phased out to be replaced with better assault rifles being manufactured in England and Israel.
The state police have also proposed to purchase modern guns to equip the cops. “More guns of the AK series will be purchased by the police under its modernisation programme,” said the DGP.
He said that lately Israeli MP guns have also been added to the police armory. The Israeli made MP5 guns are considered to be effective for close combat. Cops on the VVIP duty are being equipped with MP5 guns. There is a proposal to purchase more MP 5 guns which are fitted with night vision devices.
The state police had started its modernisation drive in 2002 but it has been progressing on snail's pace, owing to the paucity of funds for purchasing new weaponry.
“The state has been constantly urging the union ministry of home affairs to be more liberal with its funding so that police modernisation could be given impetus,” said additional director general of police (armed police and training) AP Siddiqui.
So...since I know for certain of 12 gauge rubber buckshot availability...and looking at the picture... They look to be like a launcher...here's another from the past here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Jim,
:lol::lol:
Complete travestie in that photo, a trusty converted .303 with an AK47 slung over his shoulder, which made me laugh
And his face covered...as a policeman it makes him what he beholds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
They see themselves as targets locally, and when the bottle throwing has died down they go home, and then the pay back time happens.
They are poorly paid and take a lot of stick when the preverbial hits the fan. The only way they can conduct themselves in their duties is to cover up!!:surrender:
lot of hate and misinformation in the article.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
The picture that Jim posted in post 11 looks almost like the Police Officer is shooting a cutaway/skeleton Le-enfield rifle.
Thats exactly what it is, they bastardise .303's to do that role of dispatching smoke and CS :madsmile::confused:
And matches the one in Gil's post (#10) perfectly. I was surprised, they're standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying10uk
Can we assume that they are single shot only and the magazine does nothing following the conversion?
Simple as possible mod F10, the mags just a loading platform.
Previous generations of Indian modifications replaced the magazine with a wooden block.
One of these riot guns would make a very interesting addition to a Lee Enfield collection as possibility, (you never know with India) one of the final variants of "the" classic Service rifle.
Someone would want to put a repro scope on it, just to finish it off, what an absolute waste of a good rifle. Perhaps it was shot out and converted because of that?? :lol::lol:
The rifle was probably fine Gil, simple cheap expedient solution for persuading the great unwashed to behave themselves...
Fact is the Indians still have many thousands of Ishy SMLE's in store or issued to the Police out in the sticks, it's only us Milsurpers who see any value in these old warhorses unfortunately.
I remember visiting Dubai in the late 1970s and I recall that there was what I assumed to be a "private security guard" sat outside one of the banks in the city/town. I remember it because it looked unusual to a "Westerner" to see a traditionally dressed local sat outside the bank armed with an ancient looking bolt action rifle that looked as if it had seen better days. I don't recall if it was actually a Le-enfield but I do remember it being bolt action and it looking very antiquated.