Printable View
I was thinking of getting a replacement barrel for my Quality Hardware M1 Carbine for when the time comes. What I wanted to know is what should I be looking for and what to avoid.
Are there any places that sell USGI barrels at a decent price that still have a lot of life in them, or are there any commercial ones that meet the criteria of those from WWII?
The problem is that there are no more WW2 carbine barrels to be found. People who have one or two for sale are getting far too much for them and then some. The replacements that were made for Viet Nam turned out to be faulty and were not approved for use by the US military. Commercial replacement barrels are available and for the most part are excellent replacements. They are only about 1/3 the cost of a used USGI WW2 barrel. CMP sells replacement new barrels.
On their website, CMP states that most used barrels will not headspace. You have to wonder, why would anyone take a perfectly good barrel off of a carbine?
I'm in line to have CMP install one of their Criterion barrels on my carbine; no point in waiting for NOS barrels to be released, they aren't to be found.
Because they're trying to make it "Original" or "Correct it"...both of which defeat themselves...so used barrels crop up. But you knew this...Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Myers
I often see USGI barrels complete with original barrel band and front sight... correct per maker for less than this Type III Bayonet band sold for.
C marked bayo band...... $385.00 CRAZY !!!
M1 CARBINE BARREL BAND MARKED C LATE WINCHESTER | eBay
Charlie-Painter777
Forgot about SA barrels, A seller from Norway has 2 SA's from the 50's and a few UEF NOS complete assemblies listed on Ebay, his seller name is stijohnse-4
NOS barrel assemblies:
stijohnse-4 | eBay
CH-P777
A few years ago I wanted a folding stock carbine. Couldn't afford a real one so purchased a reproduction, and a very pitted receiver. I had the rest of the parts except for a barrel. Purchased a reproduction one. Since I do not have a lathe, I had a local gunsmith turn the shoulder to time it. He didn't know squat about carbines, but followed my instructions and got it timed perfectly. A few minutes with a pull through reamer, and I now have a great paratrooper.
Not wanting it to ever be passed off as a "real" one I stamped both the barrel and the stock with "SISU".
Re Norwegian seller on Ebay. Just a friendly reminder that the US State Dept has restrictions on imports (into the US) of firearms and components. Barrels, receivers, and pistol cylinders all require import permits. Had a friend try to ship a carbine barrel into the US by Post, and was turned around at the border and returned to sender. I have a dozen carbine USGI take-off barrels that I would like to sell into the US, but no-can-do.
Have gotten a dozen from the Norwegian All nos He is good seller
wtmr, you are a lucky fellow!
Your 27 CFR 478.113a document is quite clear on importation of barrels.
27 CFR 478.113a - Importation of firearm barrels by nonlicensees. | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute
Although, I guess a law is only as good as being enforced.
Seems a little unfair, as these barrels were made in the US, and being of historical significance.
Ted
Thanks for all of the posts. I do have a question for you guys, and it is what is too much for a USGI M1 Carbine barrel, the average price, and so on?
If any of you guys see one that is possibly for sale, or know of a commercial one of equal, please let me know
One can thank our last Pres and the Hilda Beast for not being able to bring ANY USGI parts into the country legally. Can't bring any USGI firearms back as well as the parts. That is why they are still in places like Korea.
Have you started a WTB here yet?Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
guy from Norway just listed several WW2 M1 US Carbine Barrel UNDERWOOD 7 - 44 UNUSED NOS | eBay
I am not a M1 Carbine expert but I believe a July 1944 built Underwood Carbine barrel would not have the bayonet lug type barrel slip ring. Any other thoughts? You do occasionally run across them. I just had a dear friend who I had done some favors for over the years just gave a still in the cosmoline Inland Div of GM 4-43 M1 Carbine assembly, a new M1918A2 BAR .30-06 barrel and a brand new SA WWII M1 Garand Operating rod. My friend said that his father who had just passed on was a pack rat who was an armor in the NG and saved everything that was being thrown out thinking that one day he may need one. I offered him to pay for them and he declined the offer. All of these WWII guns are getting to be 75 years old or older and to find original brand new parts are getting like finding hen's teeth. A lot of the US stuff sent overseas was part of Mutual Defense Funds which the US Government still considers its property.
--fjruple
Your right it would not have had a type 3 barrel band on it. An Underwood barrel made in July 1944 would have been made by Underwood under a USGI contract to make replacement barrels for rebuilding. The type 3 barrel didn't come into use till November 1944. If parts were sent overseas as part of the lending to program then if they have not been used they should have been returned too. But many times they were not and sold off to local people who now sell them like this gentlemen in Norway and in France. I sure hope Trump changes the orders that our last Pres and the Hilda beast set up to allow USGI firearms and parts back into the US.
Hello Bruce,Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
We need a new topic posted about this very thing, explaining just how we Joe public can best lean on our reps and senators for help.
Where we can toss around some ideas to get a good game plan.
My first thought would be help from all the Collectors and Firearms Associations.... aka NRa etc.
I'd be happy to contact my local reps and senator.
Now, during this admin would be the time to do so.
Charlie-painter777
"Not wanting it to ever be passed off as a "real" one I stamped both the barrel and the stock with "SISU"."
Got to be a Finn!
Unfortunately, I don't think I will be able to have it sent to me, here in the states, so I am having to make due with gunbroker and other auction sites. I have been seeing many with "MZ" followed by a number. I know that I am going to catch flak for asking this, but what does it actually stand for? I know it has something to do with the barrel, but Could someone give me the details? Is it, the higher the number, the better, or is it the other way around?Quote:
Originally Posted by cali201
Muzzle erosion, or wear. The lower number, the better. 1 or 2 is good - 3 not so good, but still may shoot OK. - Bob
Thank you, Bob.Quote:
Originally Posted by USGI
There are a few that are around 1-2. Would you happen to know what is considered a good price for them? Also, should I avoid those that have import marks on them? I've heard that sometimes they can deform the barrel. What about those with no date on them?
That was Blue Sky barrels that were deformed I think, not all of them. I had a Blue Sky that was ok as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
Thanks for that info. I'm asking the seller what the import mark is. Hopefully he gets back to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
Most seem to be going for around $300. Is that normal price or are they upping the price on them?
I.H.
Here is a search of sold completed auctions on Ebay.
I searched M1 carbine barrel, but the search also includes other items.
You can scroll thru the results and put together a average price.
m1 carbine barrel | eBay
Here are mixed results from a completed auction search on GunBroker using M1 carbine barrel as the search type:
http://www.gunbroker.com/Rifle-Barre...frame=1&kwop=2
fwiw,
Charlie-painter777
Even here in Canada, that price would be about right I think. If it were nice...Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
Watch out for Herlo barrels too. They are bad and were not accepted by the military. They can be identified by the following numbers on the barrel flat; 8448416HC (chromed barrel) or 5557154HC for nonchromed barrels. They have incorrect twist rates, short chambers or chrome lining that flakes and ruins accuracy.
Neal,Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal Myers
No Dis-respect meant, but you may have missed part of what the OP I.H.1989 said:
JimB, Thanks for naming the Herlo barrels. I believe that's what Bruce was referring to, but didn't call the barrel by makers name:Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
I have 5 or 6 Carbines that I'll pick from to take to the range regularly. One, if not my most often shot carbine is a S'G' with Buffalo Arms Blue Sky Stamped Import Barrel with a muzzle that will just touch the brass case on a M2 round when used as a 'Poor Mans Muzzle Gage'. When first measured I thought it had been counter bored..... Nope, But @ 100yrds with my reloads, bench rested it will consistently hit a paper plate.... so go figure.
This S'G' / Buffalo Arms has the best trigger pull I've noticed on any of my shooters.
It has a Unmarked CAST Hammer. I paid $450 for this one, which is a 90% mixer except I believe the barrel is original to the S'G' receiver. It's nice to have one your not worried about scratching or denting, one you can have your friends lite up! And it sure beats $300 plus for just a barrel, that you hope will head space ! :rolleyes:
FWIW
Charlie-Painter777
If you're okay with a reproduction that matches the USGI contour with a much higher quality internal finish, I'd recommend picking up a Criterion barrel. The chrome lined model sold through Fulton Armory recently set a pair of national records at Camp Perry.
Criterion Barrels Shooters Announce Two Additional National Record Setting Performances
Thanks. I've found a couple that have a MZ of 1 to 2. They are going for a little over $300 and are USGI from what the description give.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
IH1989,
Are you currently serving?
Just curious as I wonder because of your location being listed as Norfolk.
We here @ Milsurps have a soft spot for our Vets......... :cheers:
If so We Thank You, If I'm wrong... uuugghhh just forget this reply... :ugh:
Hang in there you'll find a used USGI Barrel.
I'll try to get some pictures of my S'G' Blue Sky with a Buffalo Arms Barrel swallowing a M2 round to the brass case tomorrow.
I'll show the swallowed to brass casing and targets from this past Monday mornings session at my local Rifle Club. Targets were first set up at 25 yrds, to set rear sight and to figure out a point of aim. Will also show my targets from 50 yrds.
Stay tuned as I'll start a new topic. You (may) be surprised as to how decent a pattern you can get with good reloads. I'm no Champion shooter and maybe should have drank a little less coffee before I went, but was happy with the results with the ole beater.
Regards
Charlie-Painter777
If it works for you then I'd do it. They won't get cheaper and may be even harder to find later.Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
Yes, I am currently serving. Been in for six years actually. I may have found one. the person selling it is asking for a little over $300 for it. It's an Underwood made in '44Quote:
Originally Posted by painter777
Remember that Underwood made barrels on a sub contract with the military after there production ended in April 1944. So any barrels dated after April 1944 would have be a replacement barrel. Not important to a shooter but is to a collector.
To add what Jim was saying about the Herlo barrels made during Viet Nam. All were rejected by the government. The company then sold them as scrap and a dealer bought them. Turned around and sold them to South Korea. It didn't take long for the South Koreans to figure out why the US had rejected the barrels and they also rejected them too. So this dealer then sold them to other dealers who did or did not know of them being rejected. At least one knew enough that he had a fake US military acceptance stamp made and had the barrels stamped on the flats with the stamp. This helped unsuspecting buyers to shell out good money for junk barrels. On the military collecting side only buy a barrel that was made before the end of WW2 or one that was stamped SA for Springfield Armory which are replacements. On the shooting side any of the commercial barrel makers do make at least acceptable barrels. Of course you can also use a WW2 barrel but the prices are just getting much higher.
I didn't know about them stopping after April of '44, but that is information that is helpful. Luckily, the one I am looking at was made a couple months before then, so I guess I lucked out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill
All carbine production ended in April 1944 except for Rock-Ola who ended in May 1944 and Winchester and Inland who continued to make carbines till September 1945.
Did all barrel manufacturers put a date on theirs? I've seen a few on gunbroker that don't and I was curious if there were some who didn't do that.
No, some did not:Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
"All barrel manufacturers under contract to U.S. Army Ordnance marked their barrels with either their name or manufacturers mark. The most common location for this marking was on top of the barrel approximately 2" from the muzzle. Markings used by some of the barrel manufacturers slightly varied over time. Many manufacturers placed the month and year the barrel was manufactured directly below the manufacturers mark. This practice varied over time with some barrels having only partial date markings and some having no date at all".
The U.S. Caliber .30 Carbines - Barrel Manufacturers
Thanks for the assistance guys THere are a couple of barrels that I am looking at, but I am currently unsure which to go for. One is manufactured by Inland in 7-43, with a MZ of 1.0. The man is asking for $315 for it. the description says it has a nice bore but has no piston.
Attachment 85393Attachment 85394Attachment 85395Attachment 85396Attachment 85397Attachment 85398Attachment 85399Attachment 85400
Another is manufactured by Winchester, with no date on it, but has a MZ of 0.5, and is asking for around $180. It also has a nice bore and a piston nut modification.
Attachment 85386Attachment 85387Attachment 85388Attachment 85389Attachment 85390Attachment 85391Attachment 85392
Since all of you guys here have a better knowledge of things than I could, I wanted your opinions on this.
Winchester barrel for $180 MZ 0.5..........
This 'Modification' worries me. Thinking they must have stripped the threads on the inside of the gas cylinder, so the gas piston nut will no longer tighten. Last Picture looks as though they've drilled and tapped 2 set screws (maybe allen heads) to grip the piston nut. It's not like you pull this apart often as part of general cleaning, but how hard are these screws? How long will they last? As there is quite a bit of pressure blown back after firing, enough to blow your slide back. I'd wait for other opinions on the WRA barrel.Quote:
Originally Posted by I.H.1989
As for the Inland barrel, you could always use your piston and nut from your old barrel and use on it. Or buy a new nut and piston, along with the proper wrench. First I'd want to be sure it doesn't have any thread problems either.
FWIW,
Charlie-Painter777
I would agree with Charlie on the Winchester barrel. Just another thing to go wrong down the road. The correct taps and dies are out there if one were to look for them instead of messing up a good barrel. Go with the Inland.