Re: Springfield 1903 NRA Sporter Inquiry

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03-15-2009, 06:19 AM
The Wolf

Re: Springfield 1903 NRA Sporter Inquiry

Greetings, gents!

It's been awhile since I've posted here, so I was surprised to see all the changes to the 1903 forum when I logged on yesterday. I hope the new and improved website works out for all of us. Now, onto the topic at hand.

I have a chance to purchase a Springfield 1903 that's being advertised as a NRA Sporter. Serial number 1367157, SA barrel date 1-31. 24 inch barrel. Sporter stock. I've had the person selling the rifle describe it to me in detail, and there are a few issues of concern:

* There's no star-gauged mark on the crown of the barrel.
* There's no NRA and flaming bomb symbol on the bottom of the mag plate.
* The bolt is not stencilled with the rifle serial number.

The asking price is $2500, but heck if I'm going to pay that for a parts rifle (as many of you know, sporter stocks, bolts and barrels were available through the DCM in the 20's and 30's for 1903's).

Can any of you do an SRS search on the serial number and see what comes up? Also looking for opinions, both good and bad news, of what you-all think we have here. Many thanks in advance for your help, gents!

Best Regards from Virginia,

The Wolf
03-15-2009, 08:22 AM
Rick the Librarian

NRA Sporters did not have the NRA and ordnance symbol. Howveer, I would be concerned about the other two items it lacks. Sounds like a "put-together" to me. I've seen several sporterized M1903s advertised as "NRA Sporters". One of the other guys with access to the SRS records could probably tell you if it is in the "system" as an actual NRA Sporter or not.
03-15-2009, 09:06 AM
Bill H

If a true sporter, the diameter of the barrel is not same a the issue barrel. At the point where the barrel band is located, diameter should be approximately 1/32 larger than an issue barrel.
03-15-2009, 09:52 AM
Johnny Peppers

The serial number is listed in DCM Sales as an NRA Sporter.
03-15-2009, 11:00 AM
Rick the Librarian

Hmmm. Wolf, you're sure you're looking in the right spot for a SG barrel - 6 o'clock position on the muzzle crown?
03-15-2009, 11:50 AM
Jim Tarleton

Wolf,

My NRA Sporter came without a star gauge mark also. Turned out to be a Buhmiller barrel turned to the exact dimensions of a Sporter barrel. It is superbly accurate, and in my mind, is worth more than a Sporter with its original barrel.

Jim
03-15-2009, 12:41 PM
Da CSP 1903shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

Greetings, gents!

It's been awhile since I've posted here, so I was surprised to see all the changes to the 1903 forum when I logged on yesterday. I hope the new and improved website works out for all of us. Now, onto the topic at hand.

I have a chance to purchase a Springfield 1903 that's being advertised as a NRA Sporter. Serial number 1367157, SA barrel date 1-31. 24 inch barrel. Sporter stock. I've had the person selling the rifle describe it to me in detail, and there are a few issues of concern:

* There's no star-gauged mark on the crown of the barrel.
* There's no NRA and flaming bomb symbol on the bottom of the mag plate.
* The bolt is not stencilled with the rifle serial number.

The asking price is $2500, but heck if I'm going to pay that for a parts rifle (as many of you know, sporter stocks, bolts and barrels were available through the DCM in the 20's and 30's for 1903's).

Can any of you do an SRS search on the serial number and see what comes up? Also looking for opinions, both good and bad news, of what you-all think we have here. Many thanks in advance for your help, gents!

Best Regards from Virginia,

The Wolf

I checked my data base and found that it was sold as an NRA Sporter. NRA Sporting rifles didn't have the bomb and NRA on the triggerguard, only the pre-WWI NRA rifles had that. He might not be able to see the star gauge mark as most were VERY lightly stamped on the muzzle. It may have a replacement bolt or the number was polished off the bolt. Ask what the bolt is stamped. Should be an N.S. bolt or maybe a WL 3 bolt.

Here it is as listed;

1366753SPT 022732DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366754SPT 052432DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366755SPT 072032DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366756SPT 082233DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366757SPT 082233DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366758SPT 103031DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366759SPT 101631DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366760SPT 111931DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
03-15-2009, 12:56 PM
The Wolf

Re: Springfield 1903 Sporter Inquiry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

Hmmm. Wolf, you're sure you're looking in the right spot for a SG barrel - 6 o'clock position on the muzzle crown?

I told the gentleman over the phone specifically where to look for the star-gauged marking. He did not see one. It may have worn off, or as has been suggested, simply been lightly marked to begin with. Thanks a ton for all the info here, especially confirmation that it is indeed a 1903 Sporter. What do you-all think of the $2500 price?

Best Regards from Virginia,

Lone Wolf:thup:
03-15-2009, 01:02 PM
The Wolf

Re: Springfield 1903 NRS Sporter Inquiry

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da CSP 1903shooter

I checked my data base and found that it was sold as an NRA Sporter. NRA Sporting rifles didn't have the bomb and NRA on the triggerguard, only the pre-WWI NRA rifles had that. He might not be able to see the star gauge mark as most were VERY lightly stamped on the muzzle. It may have a replacement bolt or the number was polished off the bolt. Ask what the bolt is stamped. Should be an N.S. bolt or maybe a WL 3 bolt.

Here it is as listed;

1366753SPT 022732DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366754SPT 052432DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366755SPT 072032DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366756SPT 082233DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366757SPT 082233DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366758SPT 103031DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366759SPT 101631DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1366760SPT 111931DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42

The serial number on the Springfield 1903 Sporter is as follows:

1367157, with an SA dated barrel of 1-31.

Best Regards from Virginia,

Lone Wolf:super:
03-15-2009, 01:38 PM
218bee

Mine's not muzzle-marked either...

Just FYI.... I have a late-1929 SRS-papered NRA Sporter and the muzzle is not star guage-marked...However, when taken out of the stock, there is a star guage letter & number sequence underneath that yours should have, as well.....Mine's "B" over "3417"...

Brophy goes into detail on this...

Best of luck

218bee
03-15-2009, 07:04 PM
oakfarm

Listed on page#46 of summary oy DCM sales1022-42.I have #137095.Hope this helps,I do think 2500$ is too dollar.JMHO Lee W.
03-15-2009, 09:57 PM
Herschel

Wolf,

My listed NRA Sporter #1367827 has a barrel date of 11-30. The barrel has a very noticeable star guage mark on the muzzle. I disagree with those who say most star guage marks were very lightly stamped. All six of my NRA Sporters have star guage markings that are deep enough to be readable even with some muzzle wear. The original bolt on #1367157 should be marked NS for nickle steel as nickle steel bolts were in use prior to 1930 and would have had the serial number of the rifle etched in electric pencil on the BOTTOM of the bolt. (Earlier NRA Sporter bolts were numbered on top so they would be readable with bolt closed.) This requires the bolt be looked at up through the magazine well to read the bolt sn or the bolt can be removed and the extractor rotated 90 degrees to see the sn. Late 1930's NRA Sporter replacement barrels were not star marked on the muzzle but had the star guage number under the barrel, as other posters have mentioned. The price of $2,500 for a listed NRA Sporter, assuming the barrel is star guaged barrel and the bolt is numbered to the rifle, could be a bargain depending on how much original blue is on the piece. It is possible that the original bolt was ground on the bolt handle for scope clearance. If this was done, a later owner in restoring the rifle might have replaced the bolt with a bolt that was not ground. This would look better but would detract from the rifle's value as it would not be numbered to the rifle. FWIW
03-15-2009, 10:01 PM
Herschel

Lee, If the rifle you mentioned is an NRA Sporter you have left a digit off the sn.
03-15-2009, 10:46 PM
Chuckindenver

that is on my DCM sales list as well, my NRA Sporter has the star very light, but its there,
mine also has the number on the underside of the extractor and not on the bolt itself.
for a nice original rifle, 2500.00 is a fair price, for one thats been restored, reblued or played with, modified, its a bit steep.
03-15-2009, 10:58 PM
Johnny Peppers

This is a star gage record card for a new Sporter barrel. The star gage record number is a/335, and is found on the bottom of the barrel where it would be hidden by the forearm. The barrel dates to 1938, and does not have the star gage mark on the muzzle.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../29bc4r9-1.jpg
03-16-2009, 02:19 PM
Herschel

chuckindenver, If I understand you, the serial number of the rifle is on the underside of the extractor. I have never looked there for a serial number but have never read of the bolt serial number being placed there. I have owned 10 or 12 NRA Sporters and have handled at least twice that many. And have observed the following. 1) The first NRA Sporters , circa 1923, did not have the serial number on the bolt. 2) The next placement location, through maybe 1929, was on the top of the bolt where it could be read with the bolt closed. 3) The last location was on the bottom of the bolt when the bolt was closed. What is the serial number of your rifle that has the numbered extractor? Thanks, Herschel
03-17-2009, 11:25 AM
Chuckindenver

i have seen 3 examples of the extractor with the serial number, one was a fellow jouster members bolt, that was sent to me to have the serial number put on, he thought the bolt was a replacement, WLK3 bolt if i remember right.
when i took it apart, i find the serial number on the underside of the extractor,
the 3rd one i saw was on a badly sporterized rifle, ground up original bolt, D&T,d about 10 times...cheesy stock, but it still had the guaged barrel, and in nice shape, with a sight sleeve conture..i almost picked it up. but 1000.00 was too much,
and it had both the bolt and the extracor serialed.
that made be belive that mabe, they replaced the bolt or the extractor or both on these rifles at one time. ya just never know.
03-19-2009, 07:24 PM
The Wolf

Re: Springfield 1903 NRA Sporter Inquiry- Star Gauged Number!

Well, I took the plunge and bought it for $2500! I got my greedy little hands on it today, and immediately inspected it for a star-gauge mark on the barrel crown... none there. So, I CAREFULLY removed the stock (Ed B. said he'd kill me if I damaged any screws or the wood) and I found a star-gauged number on the bottom side of the barrel:

I
1659

Ed says this is an unusual star-gauged number. Anyone out there with additional thoughts/comments on the rifle would be greatly appreciated!

Best Regards from Virginia,

The Wolf

:super:
03-19-2009, 09:35 PM
Da CSP 1903shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Wolf

The serial number on the Springfield 1903 Sporter is as follows:

1367157, with an SA dated barrel of 1-31.

Best Regards from Virginia,

Lone Wolf:super:

Sorry, Heres the correct information for you;

1367152SPT 061732DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1367153SPT 052432DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1367154SPT 103031DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1367156SPT 042732DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1367157SPT 112331DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
03-20-2009, 08:55 AM
sdkrag

I have concentrated on krags for many years. I did manage to find a star gauged 03 years ago serial #1372748 with a 1929 dated star gauged barrel. I didn't realize that any records existed on NRA sporters. Any chance a kind soul would check my serial number to see if it floats to the surface. When i bought it it was in a hacked up stock. I have been shooting it for years mounted in a c-stock. My toughest job is keeping it. I have two teenage boys that like to shoot, especially fine rifles.
03-20-2009, 10:23 AM
Da CSP 1903shooter

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdkrag

I have concentrated on krags for many years. I did manage to find a star gauged 03 years ago serial #1372748 with a 1929 dated star gauged barrel. I didn't realize that any records existed on NRA sporters. Any chance a kind soul would check my serial number to see if it floats to the surface. When i bought it it was in a hacked up stock. I have been shooting it for years mounted in a c-stock. My toughest job is keeping it. I have two teenage boys that like to shoot, especially fine rifles.

sorry, big gap with no hit.

1371941NM 092631DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1371945A1NM 121834DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1371948NM 012732DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1371953NM 092631DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1371989A1NM 071436DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1372565 012241DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1373990 101939CO L 4TH INF TO 9TH CORPS
1374311 110449FISH & WILDLIFE SERVICE
1374845A1NM 090936DCM RIFLE SALES 1922-42
1374878ST 09263811TH ENGR
1374878ST 09263811TH ENGR CZ
1374878ST 092638COROZAL CZ
03-20-2009, 03:51 PM
sdkrag

I wasn't aware there were serial numbers availabel to reference 03 NRA sporters etc. A number of years ago I picked up a "sporterized 03" serial 1372748 with a 1929 star gauged barrell. Does any one have a record of this one?
03-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Johnny Peppers

No hit on 1372748. You could order all the parts from Springfield Armory, and someone may have wanted a star gaged barrel on their sporterized rifle.
03-20-2009, 07:33 PM
sdkrag

Sorry about doubling up on the question. Didn't know there was more than one page. Thank you. I really don't care what it was. It is one sweet shooting 03 with a Star gauge barrell and I was lucky enough to find it at a local gun show years ago for a reasonable price. I love to shoot it. It looks good to my Krags.