P14 project / questions

I went looking through some local shops today hoping to find a NO4 MK 1 rifle because I have become interested in them from everything that has been written here and I have become interested in the 303 British cartridge. After looking at a few examples and being discouraged with the advertised price vs condition I was ready to leave when I spotted a sported P14. What caught my eye was that the barrel hadn't been chopped but the stock was worked over into an abomination. The price was right and I thought that maybe the p14 design would be better until I learned the cartridge plus it would give me something to bide my time with. The first thing I noticed was that there was a volley sight affixed to the side of the action which is what drew my attention and the bore and crown were better than the no 4 rifles I was checking out not to mention most milsurps I see about. Im certain the bore will clean to near brite and the lands are defined at the crown. Blueing is moderately fair with not a whole lot of inspectors / acceptance marks and no import marks ears and rear sight are there. The other thing is that the breech face was flat and the bolt was numbered on the bottom to the receiver. I faintly remembered from reading here that the rifle may not have been through a refurb, so I couldn't stand it and bought it. My question is, being the rifle is without stock, handgaurds and accompanying bands swivels would it be worth the effort to chase those parts down? The butt-plate and FSB have also fallen victim to bubba's bench grinder but some parts I have in my shop albeit they may not be commonwealth approved. Theirs a LB no 4 there also with a scope mount on it that has "DT" on the wrist as well I didn't know what to think about that either. Advice thoughts or suggestions are all welcome. Thanks, Brian ( sorry no pictures yet because I had to wait to bring it home)

I did manage to get a stock and hand guards off eBay a year or 2 ago that I need to go on a U.K. deactivated P14. This is because it came with a M1917 stock minus hand guards. The stocks and hand guards don't seem to come up for sale very often on eBay U.K. but the metal parts may be slightly easier.

Thanks, the stock is what I'm worried about. I looked on Ebay over here and one just sold with HG's but a hole was bored through the set near the breech. Ill have to keep looking and just be patient.

It's a shame you just missed a nice one on eBay that went for $245.50. It came with hand guards but no metal and no holes. The ones with holes are from DP rifles which were deactivated by drilling a hole completely through it at the chamber. Just about all the metal parts you want can be found but 5 to 1 they'll be for a US Model 1917 and marked with an acceptance eagle. If that doesn't bother you all parts can assembled in a couple of weeks.

For a reloader a P14 is a dream come true. No case stretch or deformation. The brass comes out of my P14 looking like it was full length resized, especially compared to the brass fired in my No 4 & No 5.

I wish you luck in this endeavor and hope you'll post some pics of it along it's way. - Bill

I just went out and dug up a butt-plate that is British marked and some m17 parts, a lower band, handgaurd ring, front sight base and a p14 butt swivel without the base. And some rusty screws. I also have another cut down stock that is at least better looking than the one that's on it. Ill get some pictures once I can cobble something together.

You should be able to get a P14 stock set, it's just a case of being patient and keeping your eyes open. Just make sure that it's P14 and not M1917.

Am I mistaken, or is the M1917 front sight base a different height to a P14 one?

I recommend that you get hold of a copy of "British Enfield Rifles Volume 4, The Pattern 1914 and US Model 1917 Rifles" by Charles Stratton (North Cape Publications) as this describes every part, noting whether the parts are interchangeable between the two rifles or not. For instance: front sight blocks are interchangeable, foresight blades are also interchangeable, but differently marked...

Very much worth getting, and you will probably save its cost pretty quickly in being able to use parts sold as being for M1917s.

---------- Post added at 08:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:45 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by harry mac

Am I mistaken, or is the M1917 front sight base a different height to a P14 one?

---

According to Stratton , you are mistaken.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by harry mac

Am I mistaken, or is the M1917 front sight base a different height to a P14 one?

---

Harry-- Physically they are the same as well as the heights. The P14 front sight blades are with a '14 and the height. The M1917 front sight blades are marked with the manufacturer's code E, R or W and same height markings. I believe there are 11 or 12 different sight heights.

--fjruple

Thank you for the recommendation about the book I will have to get a copy of the text. I'm pretty sure that the magazine box/ follower is different as well as the ejector and profile of the bolt. Something else I learned but am not sure of is that the stock that accompanies the rifle in its current state may be a early commercial offering of a post war Remington example or at least was done to resemble the profile. Any existing existing marks will surely be wiped if its the original stock because it has been slimmed down significantly. Thanks again for the replies. Hopefully I ll have it home soon.

I did read somewhere that the P14/M1917 rifle was the most technically advanced rifle to be used during WW1. Some will probably dispute this.

I have read the same thing some time prior to discovering the rifle but I forget what the specific reasons were or where I read it. Ejector being the main weak point. Could have been the initial trial period and ammunition development, receiver alloy content, ease of manufacture for numbers or the combination of a number of ideas that were incorporated into the design. Maybe like dog legged bolt, helix shaped locking lugs or bolt safety interface. Accuracy. Anything other than that is strictly conjecture on my part. I found all the missing parts with the exception of the stock. Stocks are hard to find for m17's I'm hoping the same is not to awful bad as true for the p14's.

Attachment 85089Attachment 85090Attachment 85091Attachment 85092

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doco overboard

Attachment 85089Attachment 85090Attachment 85091Attachment 85092

---

Doco--

That's a nice one with all matching serial numbers. And an unconverted MkI, too. Does your rifled have a serial number stamp in the wood under the front of the forend? Thanks for sharing

Cheers

fjruple

When I found it I was looking for a No4 and right before I walked out I spotted it in a pile of sported rifles in front of the rack. Someone had whittled the stock it was mounted on to pieces. The forearm had been shortened so it has been lost for good.
There is something in the butt-stock compartment that looks like an oiler but it has what I think to be a soft rubber end to it. I think it may be a recoil reducer but I'm not sure how to get it out because its pretty tight in there. I don't know why it would be needed on such a heavy rifle though......Well I just went out and looked at and I think its an oiler. The top of the cap seems to be cork and doesn't go towards the entire circumference of the cylinder and it looks like nickle. Would that be a possibility? There was small black string tied to it but it broke trying to remove it from being oil contaminated and old. The only marks that remain are a serif 2 an 16 inside the floor plate in-letting. There is an additional hole drilled of the same diameter that parallels the main compartment below it and then yet another drilled at an angle between the two. Reminds me of a drain hole. Its about 5/16 diameter. I'm going to drill below the main compartment and try to remove that object. Its a shame, there is a nice grain to the old stock. Someone could probably use it for repair wood or knife handles or something.

Doco that is a combo oiler/cleaning kit. It has a soft end so that it doesn't make noise as it slides up and down in it's chamber. Obviously not a problem for yours. Oil under one cap cleaning pull-thru under the other. If it's complete there will also be a brush that screws into the pull-thru and patches. Nice find as they are almost never there. Kind of a shame though, think of how complete that rifle must have been before being chopped! - Bill

Attachment 85124 I got it out pretty easy with a dental pick. The string had a knot jammed against the sidewall. The oil reservoir was nearly full. Smells almost like a cross between diesel fuel and Quaker state.

Typical early Springfield kit. The rubber end should actually be wood.

I found two stocks that I'm waiting to secure when they arrive. The first is a drill rifle no worse for wear that is complete with a welded rod into it and paint stripes. Attachment 85705Attachment 85706Attachment 85707The other is different with a perch belly profile in front of the mag well, and a groove in the left hand guard towards the pointer but is in much better shape. The butt-stock has the same letters stamped in it that the left side of the receiver has on it so it may be a better match. Pictures are fair at best but give a general idea of the second stock.

The fuller profile stock you have is an early Eddystone 'Fatboy' stock. Almost all the stocks I have or have seen have had the buttstock markings sanded back, so that one looks really good.

Heres some better pictures of the stock that I was finally able to secure. It's as close as I can get.Attachment 85784Attachment 85785Attachment 85786Attachment 85787

Doco overboard--

Please post a photo of the front part of the stock that is missing. It would probably easiler to graft the missing piece than to lose your original stock markings. In either case, the stock will not be original. I have seen the missing front ends on Ebay from time to time.

--fjruple

So that's what the butt stock markings are suppose to look like. Mine was sanded so heavy at some point in time, perhaps during it's Weedon refurb that those markings look like they were drawn on with a pencil. Nice find, I'm sure it wasn't cheap though. - Bill

The front of the stock is there I just missed it in the picture. The cost of the stock was high but the rest of the rifle was comparatively low so it evened out in the end. Very rarely do I ever get a deal on anything but I'm satisfied for what I have in this one.

Doco--

Does your rifle have the serial number stamped under the front of the stock? I have observed this numbering on the early Eddystones.

--fjruple

No there is nothing there that I can see. Just behind the trigger bow on the wrist are the only markings on the exterior of the wood.

Nice. that second stock is perfect. Not only is it the correct Eddystone and "fat" stock it also has the EY "Emergency Use" markings to match your early unconverted EY Eddystone MKI, still with volley sights. Not often does that happen.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doco overboard

The other is different with a perch belly profile in front of the mag well, and a groove in the left hand guard towards the pointer but is in much better shape.

---

No "but". The apparent groove is not damage but a deliberate recessing of the "fat boy" stock so that the volley backsight has a clear view of the volley sight! Get a volley backsight and fit it and all will be clear! With legible stamps preserved (i.e. not sanded), that is the stock to go for. An ex-DP stock would probably be a PITA to clean up!

Got it, I seen how it works with the groove after I was able to secure the stock because the volley back sight was intact. I put a few rounds down range after it was all together using PPu 175's in preparation for a nostalgia event coming up this week. It printed about 3" high @100 yds. In a very nice group. Pretty easy shooting with light recoil and good sight radius but haven't tried it with a sling yet.