M1903A4 fake or original

The company "Old Arms of Idaho" opened a thread on this board where he linked to a small military arms collection he bought and is selling on gunbroker. He had posted this thread here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61310

Looking at the auctions I noticed a M1903A4 rifle, which I looked at in detail. It appeared to me to have been scrubbed and reserialized.

I am therefore kindly asking others to give their opinion on the rifle being original or not. See http://www.gunbroker.com/item/657204109 - thank you!

Some stock stamps look they were done yesterday!

I have to agree with you, the barrel ring markings look as you've described. The "G" is an "O" with a line inserted. The number was done yesterday. The whole affair looks to have been ground or polished. The area under the front sight looks to have been polished and blued...

Here's another for a look... https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ghlight=1903a4

Promo. I agree with the othhers. Yes, it looks like the serial number area has been ground down and a new number applied. The numbers don't look quite right--(shape and depth). Also the front sight and muzzle have been cold blued, another dead give away. Yikes! When will this stop! Salt Flat

I thought I put an answer on the other posting where he's defending so hard but it appears not to be... I expect he'll take it and run. I can't imagine why such a hard sell here...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I have to agree with you, the barrel ring markings look as you've described. The "G" is an "O" with a line inserted. The number was done yesterday. The whole affair looks to have been ground or polished. The area under the front sight looks to have been polished and blued...

Here's another for a look... https://www.milsurps.com/showthread....ghlight=1903a4

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I would have to concur guys, unfortunately it doesn't appear to be right.

A very Birchwood Casey looking cold blue at the muzzle.

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Originally Posted by Promo

The company "Old Arms of Idaho" opened a thread on this board where he linked to a small military arms collection he bought and is selling on gunbroker. He had posted this thread here: https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=61310

Looking at the auctions I noticed a M1903A4 rifle, which I looked at in detail. It appeared to me to have been scrubbed and reserialized.

I am therefore kindly asking others to give their opinion on the rifle being original or not. See http://www.gunbroker.com/item/657204109 - thank you!

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I don't know where the original post has gone but I did put a thanks to your comments Georg, even a blind man on a galloping horse could spot that one, it reminds me of a SMLE No1 MkV, I purchased from a "so called Enfield specialist" all nice with my questions etc, but when it arrived and as soon as the Butt come out the Wrapper I knew it was a lash up, of course pointing out it had a EFD very early fore-end and repro sight etc etc...... I got a right ear full of " you don't know what your talking about ".........I did return it and got a refund, lost a few ££ in post etc but it wasn't the first one, it ended up in an auction over here a few years ago.


I like others appreciate your concerns and knowledge and I hope it will help deter those that have the hard earned cash burning a hole in the pocket.

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Originally Posted by bigduke6

I don't know where the original post has gone

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I have a feeling that management has erased the whole thing, I sent a message that he was trying to sell on open forum. Plus the acrimony he was implying...

He changed the description on GunBroker.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I have a feeling that management has erased the whole thing, I sent a message that he was trying to sell on open forum. Plus the acrimony he was implying...

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Still there.... :thup:

For the benefit of any members considering bidding, I felt it was in their best interests to obtain as much feedback as possible from expert 1903 collectors, about this piece.

Regards,
Doug

I re-attached the pictures I had posted in this thread here again, in case the rifle ever surfaces again and to make a clear connection.

The company Old Arms of Idaho proofed that it is a serious address for any collector. They did the only correct thing one can do with an active auction which can't be ended - they added the note to the auction that this rifle is not original and won't be sold.

This is something which quite a lot of companies would not have done and is a clear statement to any collector out there, that they want to be a reliable source for customers.

Many thanks for this step, best luck with the rest of the auctions (in case the others have not noticed it: they are selling an extremely nice BNZ 45 K98k rifle which appears to be all original and correct, especially since it is the very rare variant with a walnut stock and a laminated handguard!) and I hope you will get your money back on the "M1903A4" rifle!

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Originally Posted by Promo

they added the note to the auction that this rifle is not original and won't be sold.

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It was like pulling teeth though...

Many thanks to all that commented. At the end of the day, when you have made a mistake or have a mistake on your hands, you just roll with it and admit it. Never fun to admit.

I get pretty defensive about negative comments toward my business and/or the arms I sell when they are posted publicly. Online text can and does get taken out of context all to often. My apologies if I came off like a Joe Blow in the OP.

Thanks to Promo for helping me avoid a possible deal failure and or duped client.

Being an appraiser can be tough. Everyone thinks "you must know everything". Well I am here to tell you, I don't and nobody does. I must constantly remind myself. Appraising is about knowing the process, having the relationships and the library to confirm info. I am very thankful for online resources and great minds such as the Milsurps crew to help with concerns such as this. This was my first experience with a collection of A4's specifically. One of the best lessons in fakes for me this year.

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Originally Posted by MisterGreen

I get pretty defensive about negative comments toward my business

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We never intended to be making negative statements toward your business, I didn't read his comments that way either. No acrimony intended. We see this sort of thing all the time here...

All is good. I appreciate this crew.

Negative was in reference to my business name and the word fake. Those are tough words for a collectible firearm dealer especially in print.

Cheers and thanks for the help everyone.

Good stuff, all's well that ends well.

What are you going to do with the A4 Mr Green, can you recover your money?

Funny that despite the description says otherwise, this does not frighten people from bidding. It appears to have sold for more than $ 2,500.

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Originally Posted by Promo

It appears to have sold for more than $ 2,500.

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Well, not to me.