Impressions on pair of No1 Mk3 Enfields

Hey All! First posting here. I have a pair of relatively new to me Enfields that I would like to confirm my thoughts.

One if marked as an Enfield factory made in 1918 (Maybe 1916?). Looks like the barrel is marked '13 so I would think its original. Numbers all match and I don't see signs of refinish. Would a 1918 enfield have a barrel made in 1913? Or is it more likely 1916?

The other looks like an LSA made 1911. I think it looks like it is stamped F.T.R under the make? On the other side of the band I see a '13 stamp so maybe it was changed to the * designation at that time? The barrel is marked '41 so it must have been rebarreled. It has a lot of black paint type substance on it, would this be from the F.T.R? Can anything be noted from the butt stock or disk on that rifle? It has a marking of some kind on it.

Are my general assessments above correct? It seems like the LSA has been through a lot but looks nice and has some character. Anyone have other thoughts?

Welcome to the forum.

On the Enfield, can't make out the date of manufacture, but the barrel looks like an '18. Nice honest rifle. Looks like the rear sight protector is on backwards, but that's an easy fix.

The real find is the LSA. It began life as a Mk III, then was FTR'd and upgraded to a Mk III* (crudely applied * in this case) by omission of windage adjustable backsight, and volley sights. The cut off plate was generally removed, but yours is intact, which could mean it was never removed or was added later in its life. I am assuming the backsight is the non-windage adjustable type. Re-barreled in 1941. And yes, they were painted black as a war time expedient. The neat part is that it appears to be wearing it's factory stock, complete with manufacturers roundel and "III" stamp below it. Hard to tell from the photo, but it should read "LSA" in the upper part of the roundel. I'm not sure when the roundel was discontinued on Mk III's, but make sure to keep that stock to that rifle, and don't touch it with sand paper! I have an early Enfield Mk III (1907) with the factory roundel on stock. I've not seen many others outside of collections.

The handguards have been modified, most likely in service by removal of the extentions (or legs, or whatever you call them). This was done as another expedient when they were cracked or broken.

Nice set of SMLE's, thanks for posting pics

Thank you for the reply!

The numbers on each rifle match as far as I can tell. Would the LSA have been re numbered during the FTR?

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Originally Posted by smle addict

Welcome to the forum.

On the Enfield, can't make out the date of manufacture, but the barrel looks like an '18. Nice honest rifle. Looks like the rear sight protector is on backwards, but that's an easy fix.

The real find is the LSA. It began life as a Mk III, then was FTR'd and upgraded to a Mk III* (crudely applied * in this case) by omission of windage adjustable backsight, and volley sights. The cut off plate was generally removed, but yours is intact, which could mean it was never removed or was added later in its life. I am assuming the backsight is the non-windage adjustable type. Re-barreled in 1941. And yes, they were painted black as a war time expedient. The neat part is that it appears to be wearing it's factory stock, complete with manufacturers roundel and "III" stamp below it. Hard to tell from the photo, but it should read "LSA" in the upper part of the roundel. I'm not sure when the roundel was discontinued on Mk III's, but make sure to keep that stock to that rifle, and don't touch it with sand paper! I have an early Enfield Mk III (1907) with the factory roundel on stock. I've not seen many others outside of collections.

The handguards have been modified, most likely in service by removal of the extentions (or legs, or whatever you call them). This was done as another expedient when they were cracked or broken.

Nice set of SMLE's, thanks for posting pics

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They aren't worth anything...I'll give u 2 bucks for them and you pay shipping. LMFAO KIDDING !!! Nice guns there.

The LSA still wears it's original serial number.

As far as the stock disc goes, it's a head scratcher. Below pic is of an ID disc marked to the Hobson's Bay Regiment of Infantry; an Australian unit. The size and style of lettering looks the same, though I have no idea what "IB" could be. And it doesn't look as if the rifle has any other Australian marks, so it's just speculation on my part.

Mac2017-nice try!

Helps if I had attached the pic....

Sorry for the small size, I pulled it from the web and it was only a 5kb file

Nice rifles.
and those floor boards... wow you won't find those in a new house.

Hmm. The lettering on that disc does look similar. Interesting.

The floorboards are in a house we purchased about a year ago built in like 2004. The owner had specific tastes including the floorboards :)

Wonder what's on the other side of the discs. Nice rifles. I agree the date you seek is 1918 not 13.

41 IB could be 41st Infantry Battalion an Australian unit in WW I. It would have been at full strength a little over 100 men of all ranks. This unit had 444 killed and 1577 wounded. It fought in France and would probably have been issued British made rifles.

It LOOKS like there's the remains of the yellow band around one of those butts.

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

the remains of the yellow band around one of those butts.

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Yes it does...

I should have written 1000 for full strength of the battalion

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Originally Posted by Savannah1948

1000 for full strength

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Yes, we knew that though...

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Originally Posted by Peter Laidler

It LOOKS like there's the remains of the yellow band around one of those butts.

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What would be the significance of the yellow paint?

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=24762

Bottom of the first page.

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Originally Posted by Savannah1948

41 IB could be 41st Infantry Battalion an Australian unit in WW I. It would have been at full strength a little over 100 men of all ranks. This unit had 444 killed and 1577 wounded. It fought in France and would probably have been issued British made rifles.

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Savannah1948,

I'll buy in to your suggestion about the rifle possibly belonging at one time t the 41st Bn AIF. The typo was noted, you've decimated the Battalion! The other 900 blokes would be most put out by being overlooked! ;)

The 41st Bn AIF was formed in Brisbane, near the current Enoggera Barracks, home to HQ 1 Div and 7 Brigade. The volunteers were a mixture of North Queenslanders, Queenslanders and Northern Rivers New South Welshmen. A volatile mixture, with plenty of vigour and capability, need we say more?

Some details can be found in this link to the Australian war Memorial: https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/U51481

41Bn Formed and trained in Australia, then sailed to the UK where it assembled and trained with the other Bns of its Brigade, before the Division moved to France in November 1916. During that time, it is highly likely that the Diggers were issued with UK procured rifles, as the fledgling production of Small Arms Factory Lithgow was not keeping up to the rapid expansion of the Australian Army. So, your suggestion certainly has merit. Is it right? I can't say, for sure. But it is a credible and plausible suggestion.

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Originally Posted by 22SqnRAE

The other 900 blokes would be most put out by being overlooked! ;)

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with those casualties they would probably be rather pleased at missing all the "fun". :D