New collector, need advice please

Hi guys. I'm a modern firearms enthusiast, and just acquired my first military collectible rifle, a 1903, which is a very different firearm to what I'm used to. I've got a lot of questions about it, so while I pour through this site finding info, I thought I'd make a post and get some advice from you guys. Here are my questions:

How do I remove the stock sights and attach flip-up backup sights? How do I attach a red dot? Where can I get an aftermarket collapsible AR15 style stock for it?

HAHAHA! Just kidding!

Seriously, I have questions. Let me tell you how I got it and what condition it's in. My uncle gave it to me as an inheritance. It looks to be in fantastic condition, except for the bore. It's a Springfield, and a high-serial number rifle, but barely. SN 985###. It has what I'm assuming is the original barrel on it. The barrel is marked 11-18 The finish on the entire rifle looks original, as it has the green hue in direct light. If this is the case, I'd say it's in phenomenal shape, given it's age. I hope I look half as good when I'm half its age. :D

Unfortunately, the person who owned it before my Uncle didn't like the black, oil-swollen stock, and took the sandpaper to it. He sanded in areas that shouldn't have been sanded, like the joints. Because of that, the top handguard wobbles a little, and the barrel band wiggles a little. Some of the metal parts are also proud of the wood, and I was told that they really shouldn't be. He also nearly sanded the proof-stamps out of it. They're barely visible. Don't get me wrong, the guy made it pretty as heck with a nice finish, and it's probably the lightest weighing 1903 in existence but I really don't like the top handguard wobble. It doesn't rattle when shaken, or anything like that, but I can move it with my hand. My Uncle assures me that it isn't an issue, but it bothers me a little.

The bore is in bad shape. The barrel probably needs to be replaced. I bought a cheap endoscope from Amazon, and looked through it. In most places the lands of the rifling look nice and smooth, but the grooves have a light lemon peel texture. It's not nearly as bad as some of the M1 Garands I've seen, which had barrels that looked like sea sponges, but it's obviously not ideal. There is one area with significant pitting, but the pitting is in small patches, I'd say no wider than very small bird shot or target shot, maybe smaller.

My Uncle says that it's still a sub-MOA rifle. I haven't shot it yet, but I take his word for it, he's a shooter. I asked him if this rifle should be babied, or if this is a shooter, and he said shoot it. Pending the advice I get from you guys, that's what I plan to do; shoot it. I asked him if I should have the barrel replaced, and he said no, as that would affect it's value as a collector's item. That was a contradicting idea, as he had just told me to shoot the rifle, don't make it a safe queen. I asked him if I should replace the stock, and he didn't think that was a good idea for the same reason.

So, here are some questions, if you've got the time.

Should I replace the barrel? What effect, aside from accuracy loss, will the pitting that I described earlier have?

Should I replace the stock? I'd keep the original, of course, but I'd like it to have a stock on it that is closer to what they would be like if it weren't over-sanded. Should I do that?

If so, I'd like to find the exact same stock, the straight handle with the finger grooves. I'd also like to find the exact top handguard. But, I don't want to spend too much. I certainly can't afford the prices I'm seeing on Gunbroker. I found Sarco, and I see that they have some stuff, but I can't find exactly what I'm looking for. Can you guys direct me to any other sources? If I can't find a straight handle stock, would the "C" style stock fit it?

Also, what do you think this rifle is worth? I know nobody would give a definite value on a rifle without inspecting it in person, but based on my description and the pictures, what do you think I've got here?

And lastly, he gave me some ammo for it. He gave me some modern hunting ammo, and some Korean M2 ball with P S stamps, non corrosive. I was trying out the stripper clips, as I've only ever tried stripper clips with 5.56 stanag mags, never with a rifle. It would appear that the Korean M2 doesn't fit quite right in the chamber. The bullet is hitting the rifling of the bore, which makes closing the bolt more difficult than with the hunting ammo. It closes most of the way fine, but on the last step of closing the bolt; moving the bolt hand from up to down, it's harder. It's also harder to open the bolt at that step. I looked at the cartridges I tried, and there is no bullet set-back, but there are scuff marks where the rifling is scraping the bullet. So, the bullet is right into the rifling when chambered. Is this dangerous? I assume that since there is no discernible bullet setback, this wouldn't be a problem, but I'd like to hear what you think.

Here are some pictures. Thanks for your time, guys.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19031-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19032-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19033-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19034-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19035-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19038-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/M19039-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190310-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190311-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190312-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190313-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190314-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../M190315-1.jpg

I wouldn't complain about the stock ...indeed the whole rifle - it is still a very nice-looking rifle. The grasping grooves are very crisp. If you don't want the stock, can you send it my way?? (Joking!). As the barrel is correct/original, give it a try shooting first.

There are a few replacement parts, like the rear sight and the rifle may have been refinished at some time, it is a VERY presentable rifle, and, if it were me, I wouldn't change a thing. You might have the headspace checked, although there have been some reports of the foreign surplus ammo not "fitting" right.

There is "shooting" it and SHOOTING it ... if your definition of that is an occasional box of ammo at the range, I see nothing wrong, given the condition of the barrel. If you mean tromping through the brush or shooting 200 rounds a week, I wouldn't.

You have a very nice rifle - I wouldn't change a thing.

Excellent pictures, by the way.

Welcome to the forum.

Well, as Rick described to you, there have been worse rifles pictured here touted as unissued and mint, unaltered... You'rs is very nice. The wobbling handguard can be shimmed at the end to stop movement and definitely shoot it before anything else happens. Perhaps it could use a good scrubbing, I had a Remington sporter that had a black cruddy bore that came out spotless like new chrome. I'd change the Uncle Mikes sling for a military grade though, post war steel frog with no dates would be perfect and affordable. Don't worry about an AR 15 type stock for it, just buck 'er off in a band saw and make an underfolder. You can probably use coat hangers for the material...

Excellent advice. Where exactly and what exactly with would you shim the top handguard? What would you use to clean the bore?

After looking at pictures, I suspect that the bolt is not the original. I also wonder about the finish. It looks green in direct sunlight, but I find it hard to believe that the finish held up that well for that long. What could the rifle have been refinished with that would leave it looking like the original green parkerization? Surely it wasn't re-parkerized?

According to John Beard, when Springfield started parkerizing their 03s the color was initially a flat black and then over time turned a dark olive if viewed in sunlight. My Mk1 has that appearance but for the life of me I can't capture the color on film.
Your rifle is really, really nice. As Rick said, if you want to get rid of your stock...send it to me ( he was just kidding...I'm not):D
I find your hand guard fascinating, I have never seen a "V" notch on the wood before.

BEAR (BDY)

The original finish wasn't a green parkerization. Your rifle was on the "cusp" between being blued and being parkerized a black color (with a VERY slight olive tinge.). Thus my statement that your rifle was likely refinished at some point.

What marking is on the top of the bolt handle?

I just noticed what Bear said about the handguard ...possibly one of those early non-sight groove handguards that was modified by a previous owner/shooter?

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Originally Posted by ccjcc81

Where exactly and what exactly with would you shim the top handguard? What would you use to clean the bore?

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It depends on what the movement is, I had a piece of rubber tube in a handguard in an M1 rifle once. Small and just enough to stop movement. Hide it inside the metal at the end. Use good, new brushes and oil and it will come clean if it's going to. Shoot it a bit first and clean after to loosen anything up.

The sanding doesn't help but I've seen far worse. Staining the wood the original purplish brown color followed by a couple of coats of raw linseed oil rubbed-in would improve the rifle's appearance considerably. The handguard is from ca.1905, or a much earlier rifle, that has been notched for the later sight which is a pity, because original handguards from that period are scarce. Correct handguards with the circular windage knob cut are easy to find and inexpensive. How is the bolt marked and what are the measurements of the gas relief ports on the bottom? The original butt plate was smooth but the fine-checkered one on it is much harder to find so I'd leave it as is. All things considered, it's a very nice rifle and certainly worth a little effort.

I would leave it as/is - "notched" handguard and all.

You may be responsible for a few blood pressure spikes with the intro.
Nice rifle & photos as well.
Now is that not nicer than any AR-15?

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Originally Posted by oldcorps

The sanding doesn't help but I've seen far worse. Staining the wood the original purplish brown color followed by a couple of coats of raw linseed oil rubbed-in would improve the rifle's appearance considerably. The handguard is from ca.1905, or a much earlier rifle, that has been notched for the later sight which is a pity, because original handguards from that period are scarce. Correct handguards with the circular windage knob cut are easy to find and inexpensive. How is the bolt marked and what are the measurements of the gas relief ports on the bottom? The original butt plate was smooth but the fine-checkered one on it is much harder to find so I'd leave it as is. All things considered, it's a very nice rifle and certainly worth a little effort.

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I am really tempted to try to get the wood closer to the color I see on the ones that haven't been tampered with as much. I like that dark walnut look. Would I need to strip the stock to re-stain it? That would probably also entail some more sanding, right? I'm really interested in this. I've re-finished a couple of AK stocks, so I'm sure I could do it, but I don't know if I want to sand on this any more...[COLOR="black"]

---------- Post added at 05:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:04 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY

You may be responsible for a few blood pressure spikes with the intro.
Nice rifle & photos as well.
Now is that not nicer than any AR-15?

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You wouldn't believe it if you knew me. I have never been interested in firearms like this, but after handling this one for a week, I've become somewhat obsessed. ARs seem downright boring now. I think it's the wood. It's so much more aesthetically appealing than plastic and aluminum. I've decided that I need a Garand, an M14 clone, and a .308 Israeli Mauser for blasting fun. I don't think I'll be shooting this 1903 much. It just seems too nice for using. I've been bitten by a bug here. I don't know how I'm going to afford all of that.

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:08 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

The original finish wasn't a green parkerization. Your rifle was on the "cusp" between being blued and being parkerized a black color (with a VERY slight olive tinge.). Thus my statement that your rifle was likely refinished at some point.

What marking is on the top of the bolt handle?

I just noticed what Bear said about the handguard ...possibly one of those early non-sight groove handguards that was modified by a previous owner/shooter?

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The bolt handle has "BF," and below that "22." What does that mean?

Very nice article in the current American Rifleman about the U.S. Marines and there weapons in WWI including the 03.
The marriage of wood and steel is fascinating along with the history associated with the various arms. You may come full circle and need a Retro AR.
Welcome to the forum and the community of those who share your interest.

Judging by the remnants of both a serifed and a non-serifed firing proof, the stock has been through at least one government rebuild. Sanding shouldn't be necessary but after it's field stripped, going over it with extra fine steel wool should be enough to prepare the wood for staining. I'd buy the correct handguard first and stain both to match. There is an abundance of original handguards on the market with the circular windage knob cut that range from used to unissued for about $30. Installing one with both new clips should eliminate the looseness and required shimming. It's a great rifle and its restoration should be both rewarding and fun. It has an 03A3 bolt and the correct one would also have a swept handle for November '18 bot only a single smaller gas relief port.

My bolt appears to only have one gas relief port. Is this the circular windage knob cut you're referring to on my top handguard? So that wouldn't have been there originally? What rear sight should this rifle have?

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/190321-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...7/190322-1.jpg

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:05 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

It depends on what the movement is, I had a piece of rubber tube in a handguard in an M1 rifle once. Small and just enough to stop movement. Hide it inside the metal at the end. Use good, new brushes and oil and it will come clean if it's going to. Shoot it a bit first and clean after to loosen anything up.

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As you suggested, I shimmed the top handguard with some rubber. I used some bicycle inner-tube I had lying around. It completely eliminated the wobble, and tightened up the rear barrel band a lot. But, do you think I can shoot it like that? How much heat do you suppose bicycle inner-tube can take?

Remember it's a bolt gun not a semi-auto. Unless you're in a trench with Jerry approaching you will probably be firing a whole lot slower than with your mouse gun.

BEAR (BDY)

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Originally Posted by ccjcc81

But, do you think I can shoot it like that?

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Like Bear says it should be fine. I had a piece in the M1 rifle I converted to 7.62 and I shot that hot lots. This piece should last fine. If it starts to give, cut another and replace it...happy it worked.

BF22 is an early WWII replacement bolt. It is a nice keeper as is the entire rifle. I would leave it alone and not "FIX" anything. It is nearly 100 years old and fixing it will only hurt it. Leave it alone and enjoy it as is. Try some light/medium handloads. 40-44 gr. Varget/4064 and a nice 168gr. target bullet. That should run well for you.

Yes, that's the correct windage knob shape for a 1918 vintage '03 and remained so until WWII. Since '03 parts aren't numbered to the rifle as is the case in say, Mausers, you have more options if you decide upon a restoration. When I come across an early high-number '03 it frequently has an 03A3 bolt probably because they're the most common and will work as well as the original. Mixmasters are common and priced accordingly but a rifle in its original WWI configuration is far more of an asset. Original stocks, especially with cartouches, are the most difficult parts to find and bring ridiculous prices but yours is quite serviceable. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

A good example of whether to restore or leave "as is" would be the Rem Rand .45 I got in trade recently. The pistol was correct with the exception of a postwar GI replacement barrel and commercial rubber grips. By replacing the non-original parts with the correct ones from the period at modest cost, the value of the pistol was increased disproportionately at a minimal investment and should I decide to do so, it'll bring considerably more in trade. I read a lot of controversial opinions on forums but mixmaster preservation is a new wrinkle. As always, good luck!

Guys, thanks for all the great advice and info. I'll take your advice, I'm not going to fool with it. I'll leave it as is, stock and all. The stock shim has eliminated my only real annoyance. I may try to stain the stock later, and when I do, I'm sure you'll be hearing from me again with more questions.

I'm going to try to go shoot this weekend. If I get a chance, i'll post my results here for any who're interested.

Thanks again.

Glad to hear from you - don't be a stranger! :)

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

just buck 'er off in a band saw and make an underfolder. You can probably use coat hangers for the material...

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I need to remember that one... Two points!

That is a nice lookin' 03, and good pictures!
I would recommend you try cleaning the bore with Balistol. I have had rust that Liquid Wrench wouldd not touch that Balistol got out with little effort.
IF the bore turns out to be beyond shooting after you clean the heck out of it, instead of trying to find a nice replacement barel with the proper date,
look for a good gunsmith who can bore it out and sleeve it. I have done that with a couple rifles- one was a WWI 1903- and it may be a better chioce
for yours as well. IF, that is, you REALLY want to shoot this one, instead of putting it up for display.
Good luck!

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Originally Posted by LooneyToon

I need to remember that one... Two points!

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I really want to see this coat hanger underfolder. Sounds legit.

---------- Post added at 12:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:57 AM ----------

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Originally Posted by LooneyToon

That is a nice lookin' 03, and good pictures!
I would recommend you try cleaning the bore with Balistol. I have had rust that Liquid Wrench wouldd not touch that Balistol got out with little effort.
IF the bore turns out to be beyond shooting after you clean the heck out of it, instead of trying to find a nice replacement barel with the proper date,
look for a good gunsmith who can bore it out and sleeve it. I have done that with a couple rifles- one was a WWI 1903- and it may be a better chioce
for yours as well. IF, that is, you REALLY want to shoot this one, instead of putting it up for display.
Good luck!

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Ah, I've never even heard of such a thing! That would be something I would consider carefully. I want to be able to shoot this, even if only sparsely. Does the bore out/sleeve job reduce the value?

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Originally Posted by ccjcc81

look for a good gunsmith who can bore it out and sleeve it.

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I wouldn't do that...not for a full bore rifle. Using a sub cal insert might be OK, but if you don't like a chamber or barrel, just replace it. Just so LooneyToon understands, I've done it too. I wouldn't do that...if I were you.

Yes, an alteration removes the value.

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Originally Posted by Rick the Librarian

I would leave it as/is - "notched" handguard and all.

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Rick, for its year, couldn't it have a smooth butt plate or a partial checkered version as opposed to the fully checkered? Also the rear sight windage knob should be dished for that year shouldn't it?

I think that is a beautiful rifle and there isn't much that I would mess with but if it were mine I think correcting those two items and obtaining the proper upperhand guard would be all that I would look to do. If it shoots well still, leave the barrel alone.

As for the sling, is a No-Buckle canvas also proper for that year?

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Originally Posted by jismail

a No-Buckle canvas

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Those actually fit a great range because they were used by everyone throughout time...