I found reference to the "M.83" in a museum collection, is there any known documentation or photos?
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I found reference to the "M.83" in a museum collection, is there any known documentation or photos?
Well the obvious references to PH M83? but I suppose there must be loads of Militaria with that number attributed to it!
Hi Gil,Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
being in the PH subforum I expected that it might be obvious...
what is a Parker-Hale M.83?
IMHO a PH M83 is no more than a 1200 TX rifle used for target shooting and called that for ease, but as I don't know the history of each number and how they were attributed, (as clearly even those working for PH are confused) is left to history!
Not my expertise that one! I have asked Bill Smallwood to see if he can come up with an acceptable answer for you.
Parker Hale built a M83 for sale in the iron curtain countries. It was a 7.62x51 4 shot target rifle. Only seen pictures however it was built on the square top receiver like the M86 and had a 1200TX barrel , bottom metal and L81 sights. There's a couple pictures on the net however not much detail. Ron (Canada)
There are a bunch at Royal Armouries museumQuote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
I believe, after speaking to Bill, that it was there as M82 because it fell in the sequence of numbering at PH at the time, but Roger Hale clearly never filled it with a "real" rifle.
I went through the records, and there is absolutely no recording of what can be called an M82 in the registers, lots of (prototypes) but no M82's.
One would therefore suspect if indeed there are a small few out there numbered as such they would bring a good price!! Bill might dig up some more info.
Leeds is only 3-1/2 hours from 16 AAB...just nip up for an afternoon...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
M83 at RA:
#1 - PR.5918
#2 - PR.546
#3 - PR.5920
#6 - PR.547
M85 at RA:
#107F - XII.11375
#00243F - PR.7091
#781-48581 - PR.13252
M85 Replacement at RA:
#1 - XII.11219 (purchased from York Guns)
Quote:
Object Title
Centrefire bolt-action magazine sniper rifle - Parker-Hale
Centrefire bolt-action magazine sniper rifle - Parker-Hale
Date
1971-1999
Object Number
XII.11219
Provenance
Purchased from York Guns, 18 December 2000
Physical Description
A bolt action rifle with a Mauser type locking system and bolt, the cocking handle of which has an oversized black plastic knob for ease of use.The receiver has no iron sights fitted, but is machined with a raised dovetail for the fitting of a military pattern scope.The receiver is black finished. The rifle is fitted with a neavy bull barrel, which is fluted for cooling. It has a rectangular compensator at the muzzle. The barrel is matt-black finished. A ten round box magazine is fitted underneath the receiver, and this is removeable by means of a locking catch by the triggerguard. The stock is of black composite, and has an adjustable chheck comb that can be raised to suit the shooters preference. The base of the pistol grip has a rotating wheel that is used for resting the rifle on the ground when using a bipod, for which a quickly detachable slide mount is provided. [The bipod is not present]. Recoil pads are fitted to the butt, and these can be removed or added to
Firearms/Artillery
Serial Number Serial No. 1
Calibre
.308 in _ (7.62 x 51 mm)
Inscriptions and Marks
PARKER HALE LTD BIRMINGHAM
Associations
Places Britain
Notes
This example is the first prototype sniping rifle of the new generation rifles designed to replace PArker Hales M85 rifle. However, the factory was unable to complete testing before they became insolvent. It is not known if any other examples of this rifle survive.
You haven't travelled the A14 recently...........anywhere north of Cambridge is chocker block until the 8 lanes are finished, as they close the complete road from 10pm to 6am every night........chaos with lorries stockpiled at 6am for miles!!
Interesting 0107F went to Northumbria on the 15th October 1986
0243F went to SAS Hereford on the 5th November 1986
Clearly found their way to the museum.
I wonder what the real serial number is on the third one...Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Google search of Parker Hale M83 states " Parker Hale M83 {NATO Target Rifle} . This is simply a commercial name for the L81A1". The L81A1 was built on a single shot M84 action with a 1200TX profile barrel.
Gil - any reference in your records? Typical L81A1 serial numbers?
Ron (Canada)
Ron,
Nothing at all on them. Just checked again, there isn't one entry logged as an M83 in Bill Smallwoods records.
Info I found { Google} was from a book "Rifles of The World - by John Walter". I copied the page. If somebody wants the info they can send their email to my PM and I'll forward. Ron (Canada).
Rifles of the World - John Walter - Google BooksQuote:
Originally Posted by rgg_7
a statement in a book, even if titled "rifles of the world" is hardly a reliable reference. In this case the article is full of misinformation and contradictory info...typical gobblygook to fill word counts.
Does he have footnotes referencing any documents to prove the statement? photos perhaps?
in a word, "nope"
I would suspect that the "M83" might well be the first iteration of the re-inforced Mauser 98 action developed in the M84/85/86/87, but until someone actually see's one, or finds a legitimate reference, it's all conjecture.
I take it that the L81a1 is an M84, https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/1139490 while an L81A2 is the totally round top m. 98 action?
Probably have to agree, sadly nothing reliable to go on from the period, as those examples are clearly in the Leeds RA, but there was clearly some thought given, and it would have been a logical sequential numbering of the rifle model, by PH. I would probably have to fall back on my original view of a variant of the 1200TX target rifle.
My solution to it should look like these, and I take it those in the museum do match these L81A1's or something close?:
No idea, never been there nor seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Attachment 86443
Attachment 86442
RW Snyder (our own RWSGUNSMITHING) built me what I call my "C3A2"...using AICS mags and a Mcmillan A5 stock.
other than that, I've only been able to play with my M82, 1200tx, m84 & m87
One thing I have always admired is the quality that McMillan produce and did with the M85 and other stuff even today.
I spoke to a very helpful young saleslady last year and she believes they still have the mould for the M85 somewhere!!
The M85 is the "McHale" stock. Tactical Stocks | McHale Stock | Rifle Stocks | McMillan Fiberglass StocksQuote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
The issue is the inletting; If they don't have the program or pattern for the M85 anymore, I would probably just get the Mauser 98 /C3A1 inlet and extend the front ring.
I've had an M85 stock that I bought from Navy arms 20+ years ago that I might finally get around to using soon...though not with an m85 action.
Attachment 86444
Yes a very versatile stock indeed.
I had a great chat with Dick Davis at McMillan a few years ago about a few of the PH rifles (C3A1 and M85). He had a lot of insight on the rifles that used there stocks.
I hate to burst bubbles but McMillan doesn't have the molds for the M85 stocks anymore. Now they still make the McHale stock but they can't inlet it for the M85 action and DBM. My suggestion is to order it with a Mauser 98 or PH 1200 action inlet with the barrel channel you want and if your going to use the M85 DBM order the stock as a flat bottom and have it inlet by a gunsmith.
@LeeEnfield- The rifle still looks good. That was a fun project. Please O' Please don't use the m85 stock for anything other than a M85 action. I would consider trading a new McMillan stock to you for it.