Need advice, PH scope base/rings?

Hello All,

Looking to scope this Parker. I don't know much about it, belive it to be from the mid 60s. The Parker has the 98/148 trigger group/housing. Also, the rifle has a heavy barrell and a "M" stamped into the receiver lock / takedown screw.

I am looking for a new base and 30mm rings to replace the Buehler adjustable base and 1in rings. The base and rings will need to be high for clearance.

Ive attached some pics.

Any ideas of what base and 30mm rings would be a good choice? Im not looking for cheapest but a good value and reliable.

Than you in advance.

Cheers,

OldSalty

Welcome to the site.
It looks like you have a .308 M84 target rifle there in a nice condition.
You will need to source a set of bases and 30mm rings to suit that will allow most target scopes. They should be easy to locate. Did you have a scope size in mind?
If you can't find the rings and base Stateside let me know and I can provide several gunsmiths details there who may have a set in stock or Norman Clarkes here in the UK.

These may help you in your deliberations:

The Weaver bases No 45 and No 46 would fit that action, then acquire any 30mm Weaver type ring

Also, if anyone can help answer some questions, like..

-what model this looks like? Im thinking 1200TX but it appears slightly different.
-what receiver is on the rifle? 98 mauser like action?
-perhaps where i can tell what year the rifle was made? It is stamped "made in england", etc.
-the stock does seem stock (ha), and has the original rail for sling screws and recoil pad is original PH.

Im thinking a rail scope base (weaver, picatinny) would be a good option, but it just depends on what might be available.

If more pictures would help I can supply.

Also, i might be willing to part with the Buehler base and rings, they are in great shape and look brand new.

Sorry for all the questions, I am slightly new to shooting sports but my collection is building pretty quick.

Kindly,

OldSalty

Your Parker Hale has a 1200 action. You would need to tell me the serial number on the left side of receiver as well as the barrel length, muzzle diameter and markings. Bolt handle is typical shape you would see on the 1200TX target rifle.

As far as scope bases and rings you can go Parker Hale originals ie A22 rear and A28 fronts. Quite often see these on eBay or just ask here and somebody should be able to help you. If you chose to use PH's you need to stick to there rings which you need to purcase in the after market. Height of ring will depend on scope used.

If you want a rail there are few manufacturers who offer these - Farrell comes to mind but pricey.

Hope this helps.

Ron (Canada)

Judging by the flat handle and the rear scope screws look over sized I would guess it's a 1200tx target.

If you want a Picatinny rail I would suggest Ken Farrell. I see your from the USA, I would strongly suggest contacting them, and send your rifle to them to make a specific base for your rifle because the rear scope screw holes do look like they are over sized.

Thanks for the replies and in fact the back screw mounts are larger, something I didnt notice when removing the beuhler mount. Is this why "standard" mauser type mounts dont work on the tx?

Sad not many options except custom work, or harder to find proprietary solutions. Which is why I was interested in a weaver or pic rail so many more options after that. Perhaps not as elegant, but more cost effective.

She is going to have to wait a bit now while I can save up to fund some work for her.

Kindly,

OldSalty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rgg_7

...snip.... You would need to tell me the serial number on the left side of receiver ...snip...

Hope this helps.

Ron (Canada)

---

+1 for Farrell

Both of your rear holes appear to be enlarged. IIRC the front (rear) one was enlarged to accept a 2BA cap head screw and securely lock the Parker Hale rear sight into place.

alternatively Redfield "JR" style base (FN 98 Mauser) & rings are available in 30mm from Leupold.


The whole serial number is unnecessary:
roughly speaking:

Early (c.1964?-70??) 1200TX have no letter prefix.
from c.1970-1980 they gained an "R" prefix (R was definitely used between 1973-76)
"P" was also used sometime around this date (not sure whether it was before or after "R").
around 1980-90 they became a "Z" prefix

All the 1200TX's on the records are prefixed with either a P or an R but listed in the registers as M82's arrived from Canada or sold as M82's to York Guns. Sadly speaking, the numbering and letters attributed to this era of weapons was a "mess" and not one a great comoany like Parker Hale could be proud of, it caused great constination!!

Also found the M98 Sniper S/N S-0001 also sold to Y Guns as a BLACK MAMBA now that is a rare beastwhereever that is now!

Thanks for the replies.

The serial number is indeed prefixed with a P, which is like P-4....

Does this basically confirm the 1200tx model?

I know for sure this rifle is definitely not from the 80's. Because I remember it growing up. Im thinking late 60's but will know for sure later today.

Also, I forgot to mention not sure why, but this rifle is chambered in 30-06. Most of the 1200tx I have seen on the web seem to be 7.62/308.

Im taking the rifle to a local gunny tomorrow to have it checked out and ask them about doing some mount work as well.

Thanks Again,

OldSalty

A "P" prefix is indeed a 1200TX. If it's now a 30-06 it's been rechambered or rebarrelled. If it's got Parker Hale markings and proofs on the barrel this will tell you the original caliber. The rear holes are larger than the front to support the large 5E sight base. Your front holes are 6-48's where the rears are 10-32's. Smith will confirm. Take the existing bases with you as well...this will be very helpful to confirm exactly what you have. If you want a rail I'd order a Ken Farrell 1200 rail with 6-48 holes front and back then have your Smith counter bore the rears for 10-32 clearance. Don't muck around with the receiver holes. Ron (Canada)

The barrell is parker-hale, with the proof markings. And imported by Jana, Denver Colorado stamped in as well. I am being told this parker was purchased with the 30-06 chambering and is late 60's.

The original owner does not believe it was ever rechambered or rebarrelled.

Not sure.

Not seen one in 30-06. If you have it out of the stock it will be proofed according. I've seen one in 300 Win Mag. Interesting. Ron (Canada).

Ive had it out of the stock to check the trigger housing etc. The only chamering marks I have found are on the barrell, which is 30-06. The barrell is very heavy and seems to fit the proflie of the 1200tx and I will get exact deminsions from the gunny.

It also came with the front "ring"and rear arperature "peep" sight from the factory.

Would a full serial number even be traceable to the origins at this point?

---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:15 AM ----------

Also, I am pretty open to the base solution but want to stay away from proprietary solutions, that got me into this mess of trying to scope it with a 30mm tube.

If there is a base 2 piece weaver solution, that would also be considered for sure.

Serial number will get it close to the year of manufacture. The records are in private hands. The chap that has these will most likely read this post and contact you. Records are incomplete and were salvaged from the factory clean up. Ron (Canada)

The no 45 weaver rear would still need modified though, correct?

Thanks to everyone for all the helpful info.

I don't think the Weaver 45 rear base has enough "meat" to accommodation the larger screws. Front would be Ok. Best to stick with the Ken Farrell one piece base. It's made for Parker Hale 1200. 0 MOA is part number "Parker Hale - 0 - G43 and 20 MOA is "Parker Hale - 20 - G42". It's a stock item and can be ordered on line for $118.94. You'll need rings to match your scope select. Your Smith should be able to walk you through this. Ron (Canada)

Im going to look closer for any signs of rechambering or rebarreling.

But at this point the only chambering mark I have found is on the top of the barrell.

Pictures attached of top of the barrel, proof mark and serial.

This was my fathers Parker, and he was the only known owner.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

BLACK MAMBA now that is a rare beastwhereever that is now!

---

Don't think that would be in the realms of "Politicly correct" these days, but I do recall some of the "glossy artistic male appealing top shelf magazines", very early on in my sea going career and recall the name in the back page adverts....... nothing to do with rifles though........

The roll mark of the Importer and caliber are in the same font and on the same line. This is not a Parker Hale characteristic. The "BNP" proof mark is on the receiver and barrel and that's a good indication that the rifle was proofed in the UK. The confirming evidence is below the stock line. If you remove the barreled action there with be a proof pressure and dimension stamped on the barrel along with a set of crossed swords. There will be a letter to the right and number on the left., also a number in the sector where the swords cross. This will tell year of assemble and the inspector. See if you can get this info. It will answer all your questions on origin and caliber. It's a 1200TX without question. Ron (Canada)

This has all been an interesting experience and thanks for your patience with my ignorance. I really love this rifle. One because of the sentimental value, but shes rather beautiful as well.

So taking off the barrell and receiver, i see the 30/06 mark, the 2 swords and some other stuff i cant quite make out.

See the attached.

Ok took some more pictures, these are easy to read...couldnt find a magnifying glass around here.

Can you help decipher this?

Thanks again.

Can you measure the barrel length? (Should be 26") Approx diameter at muzzle? (Should be .900") Is the barrel marked "Parker Hale Ltd Birmingham England"?

The rifle has an original 30-06 chambered barrel..it was BNP proofed for 30-06 at 18 tons per square inch for a case length of 2.494". This was done in 1970 (confirmed by the "V" on the left side of the crossed sword) and is correct for the period "B" (1950 - 1974) and done by Inspector "4".

First one I've seen....not many of these around. Hang on to this one!

Ron (Canada)

PS Go with the Ken Farrell rail - you won't regret it!

Yes the barrell is 26in and it appears to be 0.9 in diameter at the muzzle best I can measure with what I have available. The top of the barrell is stamped "Parker Hale Ltd Birmingham England"

See the attached.

The rifle has a lot of personal value to me, dont see me ever parting with it. My father said it only has about 200 rounds through it. I want to get it scoped then take it out then put it up and only bring it out from time to time.

I have other rifles for more volume target shooting.

Ron,
That is interesting to find it in a 30-06, which hailed from the SAFARI series of PH rifles manufactured in 1965 to 1966, stunning rifles too for that time.

Geoff,
Agreed, but thats what is recorded in the PH register, and was more a name attributed to the snake in sub saharan Africa, who I have come across on several occasions, who is a highly intelligent snake and never want to see again. It follows you if you sweat heavily, and waits for you to rest and get down to his height and then strikes.....in my book probably the worst snake to upset, as they "run" faster than man when peed off.

Lee Enfield,

The whole serial number is unnecessary:
roughly speaking:

Early (c.1964?-70??) 1200TX have no letter prefix.
from c.1970-1980 they gained an "R" prefix (R was definitely used between 1973-76)
"P" was also used sometime around this date (not sure whether it was before or after "R").
around 1980-90 they became a "Z" prefix


As said earlier I have spent many happy hours debating this with ex PH engineers. There was no rhyme nor reason for what occurred on lettering and prefixes before or after a weapon was stamped with a number in the PH factory, UNLESS , it was part of an ongoing series like the M85.......C3A1 contracts understandably.
Before that, as I say, I have numbers that throw all logic to the four winds, as the lads will all say "We did what we were told".......it was a mess:surrender:

Probably RUGER and AI and others, learnt from these errors of judgement and therefore you can trace and date their weapons more readily

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Ron,
That is interesting to find it in a 30-06, which hailed from the SAFARI series of PH rifles manufactured in 1965 to 1966, stunning rifles too for that time.

...snip....

---

Gil,
I've seen several .30-06 PH "1200TX" type rifles for sale in the UK over the last few years.

Some of them have been mounted with recoiling Unertl type forward mounted scope blocks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gil Boyd

Lee Enfield,

The whole serial number is unnecessary:
roughly speaking:

Early (c.1964?-70??) 1200TX have no letter prefix.
from c.1970-1980 they gained an "R" prefix (R was definitely used between 1973-76)
"P" was also used sometime around this date (not sure whether it was before or after "R").
around 1980-90 they became a "Z" prefix


As said earlier I have spent many happy hours debating this with ex PH engineers. There was no rhyme nor reason for what occurred on lettering and prefixes before or after a weapon was stamped with a number in the PH factory, UNLESS , it was part of an ongoing series like the M85.......C3A1 contracts understandably.
Before that, as I say, I have numbers that throw all logic to the four winds, as the lads will all say "We did what we were told".......it was a mess:surrender:

Probably RUGER and AI and others, learnt from these errors of judgement and therefore you can trace and date their weapons more readily

---

If RGG's interpretation of the proof code is accurate it loos like:
no prefix c.1964-69
P '69-73
R '73-80
S ?
Z '80-90

what about (Q, , T, U, V, W, X, Y ???)

As near as I can tell from looking at existing examples, PH built 1200TX/M82 rifles on already serial numbered actions... ie) they took regular actions and assembled them into whatever configuration they needed to fill orders.

this explains why C3 /M82/1200TX rifles are in the same serial range (approx. R30000 - R36000) as a c.1973-'78 commercial .270 sporting rifles...


BUT, don't forget that PH used:
recycled military K.98 actions, FN commercial 98 actions, Santa Barbara commercial 98 Actions, Midland 1903/98 cross breed & Yeovil Castings actions...

Especially in the Yeovil "M" series actions (screw on "midland type" bolt stops), serial numbers seem to have been based on action model.

In my opinion, once the Yeovil castings actions began to be used, I doubt that they "manufactured" "TX" rifles, though they seem to have refurbished and re-sold them.

Are there Yeovil type heavy barrel varmint rifles?

Regarding "Ruger and Others", starting in 1969 US firearms manufacturers were forced to use serial numbers with codes showing year of manufacture by the Gun Control Act of 1968 (commonly known as GCA-68).

So I took the rifle to my local gunsmith this morning and he said no problem with getting this worked out. So I ordered the Ferrell 0 MOA (since the furthest I generally shoot is 400yrd - its all the room we have on 60 acres).

PARKER HALE-0-G43

Very excited to get this put together and take it out for a spin. Thanks to all for the very helpful information. I will post the results after the mount and some target results as well.

Cheers.

I would "categorically" say that there are NO charts or any form of prefix dating for any of the rifles that currently have a prefix or suffix letter.

What I would say is that rifles with a suffix letter, were probably actions MADE by Parker Hale (These actions also had the bolt stop like the one on the M85, where you pushed it into release the bolt rather than pulling it out like the Santa Barba and the Mauser Type).

As for the prefix lettered ones, they were Santa Barba actions and these were used quite "randomly" when there were few rifles in the system, with the exception of maybe the Australian C3 etc where they tried to keep a run on the prefix letters.

Christ that was hard but factual hope it helps! I often wonder why commonsense never prevailed in PH's systems, but hey ho who am I to criticise?? Old Salty, thanks for bringing this up, as it needs to surface from time to time to keep us all sane, and figure out the mess that "they" the heirachy at PH left us with !!!!!

All good. I find the history to be quite fascinating but can also understand why there is much confusion / frustration.

I did learn (thanks to everyone who replied), that I have some type of 1200TX or variant, originally and still chambered in 30-06 and was built ~1970. The proof marking are legit and now I have a base solution (again thats to thread contributors) on the way...just got shipment notification. With any luck the rifle will be ready by the weekend. Cant wait.

I guess the confusion will just need to add to the charm...always look for the positives! :)

Cheers.

You have IMHO a great 1200TX there. Enjoy;)

Got the Farrell base today. Holes line up nice, but of course the back receiver holes are larger so the back rail holes will require smithing. The rail definitely feels quality for sure.

One interesting thing though, is that the bottom of the rail is flat. I expected it to be rounded to fit more flush with the receiver. I will see if the smith wants to bed it - I know that would probably be the best choice for overall quality - but we will see. The Buehler mount fit flush, (like a glove) due to being rounded on the bottom of the mount.

The base should be round and match the receiver. Now there might be some small variation but the way your describing it, it's completely flat. I don't wonder if you got a wrong base?

It is completely flat.

I ordered:

Parker Hale MOA - Steel Black Matte: 0 MOA - PARKER HALE-0-G43

It has "Parker Hale" and "M84" stamped into the top of the rail.

Old Salty,
Just check with the provider as it should be rounded as he will clearly know. He has probably picked up the wrong one. The holes will line up, but don't do anything to compensate until you have spoken to him IMHO

Bummer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldSalty

It is completely flat.

I ordered:

Parker Hale MOA - Steel Black Matte: 0 MOA - PARKER HALE-0-G43

It has "Parker Hale" and "M84" stamped into the top of the rail.

---

Whoops, you ordered for the wrong PH action, you need the "Mauser 98 Commercial" contour.

The M84/86/87 are flattops, the 1200 series are commercial Mauser 98 round top actions.


I recommend speaking directly to Farrell to confirm you get the correct one, or ask RWS above for advice.

Well that explains it. I ordered the model mentioned in the thread but no big deal, stuff happens. Going to call them tomorrow and get this straightened up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OldSalty

Well that explains it. I ordered the model mentioned in the thread but no big deal, stuff happens. Going to call them tomorrow and get this straightened up.

---

I see they also list "Santa Barbara", this may be the correct contour rather than the Commercial m98, although they may be identical...you would have to ask them.

Pls contact Ken Farrell. The Parker Hale mount that you have is incorrect as folks have pointed out. Tell them that you have a 98 commercial action by Santa Barber. They should be able to fix you up. They are a great company to deal with.

Ron (Canada)