B17G Sentimental Journey visited...

Football today. Yesterday we visited the Commemorative Air Force Arizona Wing's excellent B-17G Sentimental Journey yesterday on her local stop. I've got to compliment the Wing on their restoration and care of their bird.

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My wife, nicknamed "Stands With Fist," tries out the port "Ma Deuce" .50 Caliber waist machine gun. Many of these same guns, designed by John Moses Browning, are still in use today. Notice that the starboard gun has a computing gun sight, designed to help the gunners overcome the airflow and prop wash.

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I'm leaning against the support for the Sperry Ball Turret. Notice that the two waist windows are both enclosed to reduce chill and offset to allow the gunners to work without interfering with each other. That was a B-17G improvement.

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Note fabric-covered control surfaces and aluminum-covered trim tab. The twin top turret position with green plexiglass was operated by the flight engineer/crew chief. The nearer top position had a single .50 and was operated by the radio operator.

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Starboard pair of Wright 1820-97 Cyclone supercharged engines

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Nose and "chin turret" installation. Both this turret and the "Cheyenne" tail installation were by-products of the failed "YB-40" B-17 "escort fighter" experiment. The YB-40 plane might not have been a success but the armament devised to protect the plane made the next variant of the B-17, the G variant, a much more survivable design.

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The Sperry ball turret. Despite many legends, ball turret gunners had the highest survival rate of all B-17 crewmen. We are looking through the exit hatch and sight window to the tail wheel.

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Tail gunner's "Cheyenne tail" gun turret. They got the name because the gun position was designed by United Airlines after the production runs of B-17Gs were established. As the planes rolled off the various assembly lines at Boeing, Douglas, and Vega, they were flown off to the United Airlines Modification Center at Cheyenne, Wyoming where the entire tail cone was removed and this assembly added. If not there, they were added at field modification centers in England.

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Bob

A very nice example of the G model does the Confederate Air Force have one or do they only have the B-29!

They could if the situation was required detach the Ball turret from a damaged aircraft in flight if they needed to lose weight to keep airborne or for a belly landing, I have seen a picture of one on its way to Davey Jone's locker going across the channel from a damaged 17 taken from inside the aircraft it was not a light decision to drop it given the cost of it but the crew must come first the plane second.

Looking at the internal of the 17 its not hard to imagine raking shots from the rear with 20mm going the length of the plane doing deadly work all the way where at least in a Lancaster there is the dreaded main spar to stop the stuff from the rear though you may lose 3 crew members.

About the B-17's here is a book that is a good read APHRODITE: Desperate mission; about the drone B-17's bit like the Mistral the Germans had but they had a pick a back arrangement with a fighter on top the USAF one required another control B-17 flying behind & above the plane which was piloted to altitude set on course bomb armed and the 2 crew bailed out.
It was touted in this mission that one of the Kennedy's sons died (he was tour expired but was hand picked for the job) due to a fault in the arming system sadly the warning was not heeded by the Brass not the Boffins nor the pilot Kennedy himself so when he armed the bomb the fault caused the load to detonate before they cleared the plane.
Another event was one fully armed B-17 decided to go on a tour of the industrial area in England unbeknownst to the controller of the plane finally crashing in a field leaving a crater 100' wide and 30' deep.
The missions were often called Operation Perilous as that is what they were I do advise you get a copy to read as it shows just how things were to try and end the madness that had consumed the world.

Good to see you both Bob, thanks for the tour.

[QUOTE=CINDERS;412392]A very nice example of the G model does the Confederate Air Force have one or do they only have the B-29!

You are Several years behind the curve! The "Confederate" Air Force was renamed the comerative air force many years ago. Stupid move because of politics, but ---
They still have the 2 B 17s. The other one is Texas Raiders. I've got 3 jumps from that bird.
Sarge

Well guess thats what happens when you live on a great bl**dy continent surrounded by the oceans everything leaves ya behind:madsmile::lol:

Very nice tour. The photos & narration made me feel as though I was there although leave me a little sad I was not.

Thanks.

Bit of a story but I have known of this one for a while but shows how tough the B-17 was.........

On February 1, 1943, there was a collision in mid-air between a B-17 bomber and a German fighter plane over the Tunis dock area in Tunisia, North Africa. The pictures of the damaged bomber became some of the most legendary photographs of World War II.
It begins when an enemy fighter, attacking the formation of the 97th Bomber Group, that presumably had an injured pilot, was spinning out of control and crashed into the back of the fuselage of a B-17 Flying Fortress bomber that was called ‘All American.’ The B-17 was piloted by Lt. Kendrick R. Bragg, of the 414th Bomb Squadron. The German fighter craft broke apart when it hit the Fortress, but left some pieces in the bomber.

The left elevator and the left horizontal stabilizer of the B-17 were entirely ripped off. The radios, the oxygen system, and the electrical system were all severely damaged. The vertical stabilizer and the rudder had been ravaged. The fuselage had been split almost totally through; attached with only two small parts of the frame and the cut in the main body went all the way to the top gunners firing position.
Both of the starboard engines were out, and one engine on the port side had a severe leak in the oil pump, and there was also a hole in the top of the bomber that was over 4 feet wide at its widest point and 16 feet long.

The tail section actually wobbled and bounced during flight and twisted when the plane turned. All the control cables were detached, except one single elevator cable that still worked. Miraculously – the Flying Fortress still flew!
There was no floor linking the tail section to the rest of the plane, consequently the bomber’s tail gunner was trapped. The midsection gunners and the tail section gunners used some of the parts of the German fighter that were lodged in the B-17 and their own parachute shackles trying to keep the tail from tearing off and trying to hold together the two sides of the fuselage.

As the crew worked feverishly to keep the bomber from ripping apart, the pilot continued toward his target and successfully released his bombs.
When the pilot opened the bomb bay doors, the instability of the B-17 and the wind turbulence was so great that it propelled one of the midsection gunners into the broken tail section. It took four crew members several minutes to pass him cord from the parachutes and haul him back into the front part of the plane.
They thought about doing the same for the tail gunner, but they didn’t account for the gunner providing stable weight for the tail section, so he went back as the tail was starting to break off.

After the completion of the bombing run, the train back home to England had to be very slow and meticulous so the tail wouldn’t rip off. The turn for home in the ravaged B-17 actually covered almost 70 miles.
The Flying Fortress was so seriously damaged that the altitude was slowly dropping, it was losing speed, and was soon flying alone in the sky. On the way home the B-17 had a brief encounter with two more ME-109 Luftwaffe fighters.

The machine gunners were able to repel these assaults despite the widespread damage and quickly drove the fighters off. The two midsection gunners had to stand with their heads protruding through the hole in the top of the main section of the bomber to shoot their machine guns.
The tail gunner was in a strange predicament; as he was shooting the recoil from the gun was causing the plane to turn so he decided that he could fire in short bursts.

P-51 fighters taking flight from England caught up with the ‘All American’ Flying Fortress as it crossed the English Channel and took one of the pictures that became instantly famous. They contacted base headquarters recounting that the tail assembly was waving like a fish tail and that the plane wouldn’t make it to land.

The pilots suggested that boats be sent to rescue the crew when they bailed out. Lt. Bragg was relaying messages to the P-51 pilots with hand signals as they flew alongside the B-17 and the pilots, in turn, passed the messages on to base command.
Lt. Bragg communicated that all of the parachutes had been utilized to make repairs to sections of the plane, so the crew was unable to bail out. He told the pilots that since they couldn’t bail out; he would stay with the bomber and land it.

The Flying Fortress made its final turn to the runway two and a half hours after being nearly destroyed, while it was still over 40 miles away. It plummeted into an emergency situation and a wheels-up belly landing.
The ambulance was waved off when it pulled alongside because not one member of the crew had been hurt. It was unbelievable that the B-17 was still able to fly in such a state of disrepair.

The Fortress sat sedately on the runway until each crew member got off the plane through the hole in the fuselage and the tail gunner had descended a ladder, at which time the complete rear section of the aircraft crumpled to the ground. The rugged old bird had completed its mission.

B-17 “All American” (414th Squadron, 97BG) Crew
Pilot- Ken Bragg Jr.
Copilot- G. Boyd Jr.
Navigator- Harry C. Nuessle
Bombardier- Ralph Burbridge
Engineer- Joe C. James
Radio Operator- Paul A. Galloway
Ball Turret Gunner- Elton Conda
Waist Gunner- Michael Zuk
Tail Gunner- Sam T. Sarpolus
Ground Crew Chief- Hank Hyland

It's just sort of unimaginable that the plane made it back and the crew were untouched.

Bob

The first time I saw a B17 I was struck by how small they are. Same for any of the fighters. Those crews had brass bells for sure.

Was that plane repaired or just scrapped?

From Wiki ~ The "All American" was repaired and returned to service as a hack with the 352nd Bombardment Squadron (Heavy), 301st Bombardment Group (Heavy), and flew until its March 1945 dismantlement.

While I was at Warminster a bloke came round who was part of a team recovering a Flying Fortress over in Norwich somewhere. Mind you, it wasn't a flying fortress then of course! He had one of the waist guns that was gently bent throught a small arc from the tip of the barrel to the end of the body. Totally solid because of the bend of course and the only thing that was visibly broken was the side cocking handle. He promised me one of the propellor blades bu they were all just a mangled mess. But he did send me the gas axed muzzle end of a .50 with the foresight + bead attached. Nice piece. I'll use it as my next project and build a F/Fortress around it!

You will have to start a build thread so we can follow the progress Peter:D

My Old Man flew in G's as waist gunner/ radio operator with the 457th of the 8th. Kept a small box of flak frags, luckily none of which were pulled from him.

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Originally Posted by Low & Slow

My Old Man flew in G's as waist gunner/ radio operator with the 457th of the 8th. Kept a small box of flak frags, luckily none of which were pulled from him.

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I've flown in the Collings Foundation B-17G 'Nine-o-Nine' out of NAS Moffat back in 2007 when on a trip over to USA, and flying in one today really, brings it home to just what all those brave men did.

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Originally Posted by Low & Slow

Kept a small box of flak frags, luckily none of which were pulled from him.

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I'll bet he just picked them up from the floor of the aircraft. They'd be lying there after a mission.