Printable View
I picked this up years ago at a gun show in Toronto. I was told by the owner that it was a factory proto-type for the C3. It's of coarse in 7.62mm and single shot, there is no mag-well at all. I made the bases and just put on a cheap Springfield Armoury scope...it shoots like a laser beam.
Your thoughts on this and exactly what it is.....are always appreciated.
browningautorifle was so kind to post a few pictures for me...thanks Jim
Here's his pics for all to see...
Your rifle is an M.84 which was a dedicated single shot target rifle.
While it isn't a prototype "C3", it does belong to the M84/M86/M87/C3A1family.
Someone has removed the safety lever from the trigger.
Interesting that the J is a prefix, and that the top rail of the receiver is NOT marked with Parker Hale M84.
Your rifle may be a Pre Production or prototype M84, "Gil Boyd" might be able to tell us if he had the full serial number.
Attachment 87296Attachment 87297
here is an add for the M87 (the 'doner' C3A1 action) & M84 and a pic of my M84, built into a magazine fed rifle by our own RWSGunsmithing
As a side note:
The M85 action, while fitting into the model sequence (and definitely related) is more of a parallel development.
They certainly built them solid I thought my commercial 1200 22/250 Parker Hale's action/bolt set up was over the top for the size of the cartridge but looking at that one crikey its like a tank......thanks for the share
Lee Enfield....I could supply that info to Gil if he comes on board!! Don't know how many were produced but it's not a real low serial # assuming they started with 0001.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Enfield
Anyhow I like that conversion... you're kinda making me think but for now though I'm going to leave it as is. It is what it is!! I've got others that need powder and primer before I start altering this one. Somebody did a really nice bedding job to this rifle and it will shoot sub-moa consistently with good ammo...... when I'm having a good day at the range. It's a bit of a heavy weight to haul around though, certainly would not entertain the thought of taking it sheep hunting. LOL.
What we found with my 1200 is a standard Mauser K-98 F/P can be turned down to suit the P H bolt body with no other mods as we did mine not long after I received the rifle as we were stumped trying to locate an original Parker Hale F/P.....
You have a plain cast M84 rifle there nothing more nothing less I'm afraid. They are a brilliant rifle as they are.
There was only one C3A1 prototype ever recorded and someone on this site has it with a corresponding lowest ****G number attributed to it.
I can confirm it was made up by Eddie Taff/Bill Smallwood PH main engineers from an M85/86 and was multishot.
Sorry to burst the salesmans bubble, but its a good tale. Hope you didn't pay a C3 price for it;)
No Gil I did not pay more than I should have.....I didn't buy the story, I bought the rifle (not to say a story has never persuaded me). I'll never forget that old proverb by one of the more notable members on this forum.
Back to the rifle....I remember it being on the table at the gun show, I inspected the bore and it was beautiful, I figured it would be a real tack driver...that was good enough for me.
It always amazes me people bring guns to a gun show, you'd think a good clean bore would maybe be a selling feature.......I don't know how many rifles I've picked up over the years off of gun show tables and you can barely see any rifling at all, there is so much crud, gun case fluff and who knows what all down there.....unless if it's something real special I put it down and go on to the next table.
The J prefix of the 10 was a good indicator that she wasn't what she appeared. Not sure why they left those three and ripped through the remainder of the number like that in blocks. Almost as if they didn't want any forensic analysis later to pull up the real number beaten into the metal
"Nothing as ***** as folk"
Hi Gil, I think the complete serial number is electronically smudged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Agreed.........but I always get twitchy when people go to that length to obstruct numbers on Firearms, so unecessary and spoils a good rifle, unless the seller has something to hide.
I would probably bet I could recover that number in my old job at the Home Office, recovered a lot worse than that.
On serious crimes we applied an etching re-agent, generally a strong acid whose name escapes me at the moment, and the metal around the stamped out markings which were etched over or eaten away by a hammer by the acid leaves the compressed metal intact and visa vi the complete serial number. Scientific magic but it works everytime. The cut of a serial number into any weapon shocks it to its very core and WILL ALWAYS leave a trace, some better than others.
Boys, just to clear the air....and I think and hope it is?????? The serial # for that rifle is fully intact as should be....I would not purchase a rifle whose serial # had been altered in any way shape or form, plus why would I want to incriminate myself, it's illegal. It's just a little piece of clear tape and marked over with a black pen obscuring the last two numerical digits of a four digit serial #, prefixed by the letter "J". It's a temporary measure I choose to do when posting pictures. I don't have anything to hide, if I did, I certainly would not be part of this Site. Now back to the rifle, ain't she lovely................
Bros,
That is good news in this particular case, and I don't blame you for doing just that in the circumstances of the www and those that look in with other things on their minds. I try to discourage people from photographing the complete number when showing it off.
I'll put my forensic kit away;).
Shouldn't the J be a suffix rather than a prefix??
There are numerous M84 actions stamped J-1234 as a prefix with a dash after the letter in the files and also 01230J for another M84 action too, so you can see the issues, and the reason I never mentioned it in this particular thread.
There are also M82 rifle stamped prefixed with an R and five numbers as well as G with five numbers both in 7.62 x 51!!! These are all examples off the records so it must be fact.
Latterly as the M85 was produced, commonsense seems to have prevailed and the letter was then stamped as a suffix 000123F for example, rather than a prefix. However, they did also manufacture M85 target rifles stamped 01234C and also on occasions left off the F at the end.....:madsmile:
Eventually G was stamped for the C3A1 contract ie 00123G but this rational came towards the end of the company!!
There are Pro Stalkers in .243, with everyone, just stamped with three numbers, and PH Africans with five numbers....so it is a little crazy to say the least.
Bill Smallwood and I have spent many hours trying to see or agree reason here, but clearly its a waste of time. Not sure what Roger Hale was thinking, or perhaps as we have tended to agree, once they stamped down a "wrong" road and he made mistakes or erroros of judgement, he just left it and soldiered on it would appear.
Thankfully there are no two rifles out there with the same numbers :bow:
Well one thing we can all agree on Gil is that they are an accurate platform I have had no problems wasting crows & bunnies up to 350 meters+ with my P H 1200 Safari Grade 22/250 as long as you head shoot the rabbits the 55gn Seirra Blitz Kings pretty much removes it for you..........
As someone that was trusted with copying the records for prosterity, I often wondered what will be said in another 100 years about these numbers. I have tried to place everthing in a sequential order, but you can now see from my examples above........it is really impossible!!