The Kentucky Krag Rises Again

Gentlemen,
I inherited an affliction from my mother. Once I decide I'm going to do something, I do it immediately. So, without further ado, the rebirth of the Kentucky Krag from this thread:
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=62174

First thing's first, I had to create a receiver wrench:
(Photos 1599, 1600, and 1601)
I cannot take credit for the idea. I found something similar on a forum but can no longer locate it.

Now that affliction mentioned early arose and I needed to get that bad barrel off immediately so out came the pipe wrench...but here's a pretty posed picture showing how it should have went:
(Photo 1608)

And once removed, you can really see how awful the drill job is on that barrel. They somehow managed to avoid the receiver except for one minor nick that will be inconsequential:
(Photo 1606)

With that out of the way, I can focus on the stock until I scrounge up a barrel.

First, the crack:
(Photo 1631)

This crack runs through an area where the stock was milled out at the Armory (for weight reasons I suppose):
(Photo 1623)

So I filled that milled portion with a custom fitted piece of walnut. I got a bit fancy here because, well, I had access to the mill so why not:
(Photos 1622, 1626, and 1629)

With the custom piece fit, I first epoxied it in place using the barrel and, basically, surgical tubing as a clamp:
(Photos 1634 and 1636)

Next, I drilled for and inserted brass reinforcing screws at an angle close to perpendicular to the crack:
(Photos 1637 and 1641)

Finally, for now, I filled the rest of the void in the stock with expoxy just for extra measure:
(Photo 1642)

And that's it for now! Next installment will be cutting down the brass screw and cleaning up the stock. Then hopefully I'll have the barrel in shortly -- will be interesting to see how it indexes.
I can whip up a sketch of the receiver wrench if anyone is interested.

Thanks for reading!

Picture 1606 is missing...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Picture 1606 is missing...

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Dang. That was the craziest one. It'll have to wait until I'm back at my work computer. But seriously, imagine a drill bit that would just fit through the receiver -- that's how much they enlarged the chamber.

Thanks for all the updating!

When 'Garber' first posted two pictures of this Krag, I thought there was something 'Funky' about that chamber.

(What do you think? Altered for blanks made from .45-70 cases or .410)?

Keep us posted on the progress.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

(What do you think? Altered for blanks made from .45-70 cases or .410)? .

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Oh interesting! I didn't think of that. I have some 45-70s laying around. I'll slide on of those in and take a pic.

Holy resurrection Batman! Looking good so far keep us updated on how it shoots and looks when you are done please?

I would like to see the wrench, I just turned down a clunker today because I was worried about the wrench.

Well I'm not a great shooter but I'll certainly be taking this to the range when I'm done!
Like I said, having this piece of Kentucky history is very VERY cool to me. Getting her running again feels like a duty. From what I've read, the regiment this rifle was issued to also came from my area of the state. Clearly this rifle was meant to be mine ;)

---------- Post added at 03:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:45 PM ----------

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Originally Posted by Doco overboard

I would like to see the wrench, I just turned down a clunker today because I was worried about the wrench.

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No sweat. I'll get a drawing put together and post it up. Pretty simple doo-dad, really. Once I get my new barrel put on, you can expect to see this very unit in the Swap and Sell section.

Thanks,I have an idea when I seen the pics but a drawing would be great.

Nice work! It looks like the rifle found the right owner.

Love to see the wrench sketch.

This isn't exactly the way I did mine but if I were to do it again, this is it.
By using a 1.25"-7 nut, you're going to be quite close to begin with and it makes the raw materials cheap and easy to obtain. I'm not certain, but I think even a brass nut would work and avoid marring the receiver (though I didn't have that issue anyway).

The key of the locking nub is the flat milled to even with the inside diameter. It's less about actually locking into the receiver and more about preventing rotation.

I'm attaching an image of the print but I can send along a DWG, PDF, or even a SLDPRT if you PM your email address. Would be interesting to 3D print one of these to see if would work....

And here are a few pictures of the bored out chamber. The chamber will fully swallow both rounds pictured I just show them halfway in to illustrate the size difference.

Image 1616 shows the chamber by itself.
Image 1643 shows a 45-70 inserted in the chamber.
Image 1644 shows a 30-06 inserted in the chamber.

Who knows what they were doing :confused:

Blanks made from 28 ga shotgun shells? Maybe originally they thought of placing a sleeve in the chamber to renew it? That's about how it's done.

I contemplated doing that myself but decided against it. Takeoff barrels are relatively cheap and I've *read* that they index well from gun to gun. We'll see about that I guess!

Quick little update on the stock work. You guys probably have a handle on this one but here we go.

Firstly, a note, I used 6-32 screws and drilled my holes a bit bigger than I should have. The major diameter of a 6-32 screw is .138" and I drilled my hole with a 29 which is .136". In hindsight I would have went smaller. Oh well. Maybe go with 1/8" or perhaps a 31 (.12").

So, photo 1645 shows the screws cut close with a Dremel.

Once close, I use a fine file to bring the screw down as shown in photo 1650.

Thanks to my too-big-holes, I had some voids to fill. Simply drop a bit of superglue in there and rub over with sandpaper. That gives you photo 1651.

Not pretty but as far as I'm concerned, it's not supposed to be! I'll put on some linseed oil and she'll be good to go. Never gonna break in this spot again!

I had a Lt Colonel friend who bought one with the chamber hogged out like that, someone's idea of deactivation. Someone else tried to restore it by soldering in a piece of steel with a Krag chamber cut in it. It was blowing gas every time he shot it. I think that one was bored shallower than what yours is, but past the end of a normal chamber. He was taking a gunsmith course, so I sold him a decent original barrel to put on it.

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Originally Posted by andiarisaka

so I sold him a decent original barrel to put on it.

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The correct fix of course. I wouldn't sleeve a chamber on a full bore.

I did win a barrel last night on eBay. The seller didn't talk highly of the bore condition but we shall see. I'm OK with the price and it will, without a doubt, shoot better than the barrel that was on it ;)

We've seen lots of less than stellar barrels shoot just fine. At least it will be working again.

The barrel has arrived and is indeed quite dark. Lots of strong rifling, though, and I think it will be just fine.
Will try threading it on this afternoon so be watching for an update!

IT WORKED!

Image 1 shows the condition of the bore. Yeah, it's pitted...but it has rifling. Just as described by the seller (a member here! I'll let him reveal himself if he chooses).

Image 2 shows the barrel threaded in by hand. The gap between the witness marks here is about .100".

Image 3 shows my clamp blocks. These are just some scraps of white oak -- clamped together in a vise and a hole drilled down the seam about 1/16" smaller than the diameter of the barrel.

Image 4 shows the whole assembly in our press. Really crank down on this thing. Make that wood crackle. The oak won't mar the surface UNLESS you don't tighten it enough and the barrel spins.

Image 5 is after my first crank on the wrench. Ideally this entire would setup would be arranged so you could see the witness marks while you were tightening. The way I had this cobbled together, I had to guess and check.

Image 6 shows what I was aiming for. Yes, there are witness marks but I figured the real key was getting the extractor slot to line up correctly. If you look closely you can see just a small glint of metal that is the edge of the extractor slot in the barrel. I need to tighten it just a bit more to get that to disappear.

Image 7 shows the witness marks as they are when the slots are lined up like in image 6.

Image 8 shows it after one more slight crank. Perfectly aligned extractor slots in receiver and barrel.

The witness marks are not actually lined up with the barrel in its current position..at least not perfectly. They're darn close though and the barrel is QUITE snug.

I am exceedingly pleased :move eek::D

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Originally Posted by rcathey

The witness marks are not actually lined up with the barrel in its current position

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As long as the extractor grooves are and the sights are TDC, who gives a damm? Let's see it all done?

I'm headed home now to put it all back together....and too the range tomorrow!

As pointed out in the original thread, the stock was pretty heavily sanding so the buttplate stands proud of the wood. I was contemplating filing it down a bit to match more seamlessly. I'm not typically one to make irreversible changes like this but...I don't know. What do you guys think? Or perhaps just doing a patch?

Don't file down the buttplate... Everyone knows the stock has been sanded, you aren't going to hide anything, just ruin the buttplate.

Well, having a bit of trouble tracking down some ammo. May not get to the range this weekend after all.
I did get it put together though and everything looks great!
Thanks for following along!

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Originally Posted by rcathey

having a bit of trouble tracking down some ammo

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Rats...I have dies, trim die and brass here, come over and we'll throw some together.

Alas, the days are long past when Canadians and Americans could cross the border freely with guns and ammo to attend shoots or 'plink' on a relative's farm.

Around 1957, when I was nine years old, Canadian relatives gave me some of my great-grandfather's 'stuff' in order to keep it in the family. I hate to think of the hassle that would be involved, today, getting the rifle from Ontario to Michigan.

Attachment 87514Attachment 87513Attachment 87512Attachment 87511

Check Cabelas and other online sellers. Remington 180 grain ammo is currently in the pipeline and available. There is a $5.00 Remington rebate.

The Cabelas near me didn't have any on stock. They tell me site to store shipping is free though so I may do that.
I'm headed back to Kentucky for a visit this coming weekend. Should probably take it back to Kentucky for visit too, huh? ;)

Take that Krag Home!

Did you buy it from tagmil by chance?

Nope, not tagmil.

In my experience, fellas, there’s two types of gun stores. The hunting type (more Winnie 94s on the wall than AR15s) and the tactical type (vice versa). Fortunately, Kentucky is rife with the hunting type. I tracked down some ammo and took some pics but wasn’t able to cut out some time to shoot.
That old piece of walnut and steel was happy to be back home though :). Pictures and range report coming next weekend!

Keep us updated. We wait with bad breath!

(Photos of 31st Michigan Vol. Inf., 'Detroit Light Guard', Camp Poland, outside Knoxville, Kentucky, 1898).

Attachment 87782Attachment 87783Attachment 87784Attachment 87785

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

Keep us updated. We wait with bad breath!

(Photos of 31st Michigan Vol. Inf., 'Detroit Light Guard', Camp Poland, outside Knoxville, Kentucky, 1898).

Attachment 87782Attachment 87783Attachment 87784Attachment 87785

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That's Knoxville, TN.....not KY. The same location had been a military camp during the Civil War.

Wellllllll, guess I can post some pictures. I'm no artiste but I think they came out alright.
You will notice too how well the finish matches between the new barrel and the other parts - I'm quite happy with that!

Sorry about my bad geography.

31st Michigan Vol. Inf. was moved from SAW training camp at Chickamauga, Georgia, to Knoxville, Tennessee, due to outbreak of disease.

(I have no idea why I confused these two fine states).

Nice restoration 'rcathey' !

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

due to outbreak of disease.

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I would guess cholera? Due to close living and water issues?

FWIW - ('BAR' - Camp move to Tennesee was due to a water borne disease, Typhoid, IIRC).

Profuse Apologies - I have no desire to distract from rcathey's Krag rebuild and adventures!

No worries at all! I actually found and purchased a book on the 3rd Kentucky Volunteer Infantry ("Heroes of Peace" by Greg Eames). Quite an interesting read and they (excerpts from diaries and newspapers) talk quite a lot of all the disease.

Unfortunately, I couldn’t find the POI of the darn thing before I ran out of ammo. Even 50 yards was apparently a bit optimistic. I’ll try for 25 yards next time.
Anyway, I have a few pics here.
I have one showing the range which is Jay Henges in High Ridge, MO. Absolutely wonderful outdoor range. 100 yards and it costs a whopping $3 to shoot there which includes paper targets and the spotting scope you see in one of the pics.
I have another photo showing how much space that 30” barrel takes up in the gun rack - kinda humorous.
I’ve also included an image that, sorta, shows the condition of the chamber. An unfired round next to some empty brass. This was Remington core-lokt and if I slide the empty brass over the loaded round, I can feel it catching on the cannelure (right?) marks on the bullet. Pretty good condition chamber, looks like!
All in all, it was a fine day to “convert money into noise,” here in Missouri. The rifle functioned flawlessly, I just need to figure out where it’s actually hitting!

And just another little note of some worth:
What a wonderful gun to carry! Even with that big long barrel sticking out, it’ll balance on one finger right in between the receiver and rear sight. It’s a dream compared to the otherwise wonderful M1.

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Originally Posted by rcathey

What a wonderful gun to carry!

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Absolutely correct. They balance and come to shoulder perfectly. Made when shooters were gun guys and so were builders. Something long lost when you look at the stainless and plastic offerings of some of the major manufacturers of today...big name brands. They snap shoot and come up with the sights on when they hit the shoulder because the sights align with the eye immediately too...

Your 'Fired' cartridge case looks normal so your chamber is probably fine.

How about posting a picture of your front-sight, so we can see if anything is out of whack?

The removable blade should measure around .413" high, outside of its base.

Try at 25 yards with big piece of paper. A Krag will normally be on the paper of a standard target at 50 yards, even with a rough bore.

It sounds like something is way off with the sights.

BR, I'd nearly guarantee this has more to do with the operator than the firearm. Like it's said back home, "well, I may not have killed him, but I scared the hell outta him." That's basically how I shoot haha.
I went to Cabelas after the range trip and picked up a shooting rest that fits me better. They also had some ammo so I took that too. I'll go back soon.

If you haven't tried this already, one way to check if the sights are close is to set the rifle on your bench rest, remove the bolt and sight looking thru the bore at the target. When it's set look thru your sights. This may show you something.

'rcathey' - If you are from Kentucky, it should be in your DNA to shoot well!

(Kerry49 is correct. Careful 'Bore Sighting' tells you if bore and sight picture roughly coincide. It gets you in the 'Ball Park' and saves lots of ammo).

At this point, get on the paper, keep the same sight picture and shoot groups. Don't use 'Kentucky windage' trying to get Bulls-Eyes. Find out where it shoots and how tight it groups. You can adjust and alter sights once you know what to adjust.

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Originally Posted by butlersrangers

'rcathey' - If you are from Kentucky, it should be in your DNA to shoot well!

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Haha, that is true! This shooting for groups business is a whole different ball game than what I grew up doing. Clay pigeons don't stand much of a chance against me and uncountable squirrels have been lead to the dinner plate via my .22... but that paper target is just different!
Oh well. Like I said, this range is only 3 bucks to shoot at. I'll be getting much more practice.

If the neck of the fired cartridges aren't blowing out, it could be that Remington, in order to preserve us and cover their own rear, has loaded them with a fairly slow burning powder so as to keep pressure down. The 40,000cup loads I fire in my Krags will blow the ID of the neck out to .314-.315 or so. That can vary with the thickness of the brass in the neck. A bore with a groove diameter larger than .308, which many Krags have, will also produce less pressure. In other words, you've got nothing to worry about. Murray KY! I'm a Murray guy too, Murray City, OH that is. Maybe someone that buys the overly expensive stuff can pull one down for me and report what they find.

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Originally Posted by andiarisaka

could be that Remington, in order to preserve us and cover their own rear, has loaded them with a fairly slow burning powder so as to keep pressure down....Murray KY! I'm a Murray guy too, Murray City, OH that is.

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Oh I’m certain that’s right about Remington. I have an auction this weekend - a yearly gun-related sportsman auction. I should be able to snag some reloading stuff AND a few other things to sell on eBay. I’ll cut ol’ Remington right out of the loop!
Nice to see another Murrian of some sort here!

Thanks rcathey for providing the drawings for the wrench you made and the inspiration for tackling a similar project. I used them to make my own but ran into barrel trouble with a cbi replacement. It has what appears to have a chamber cut to full depth but is about 5/16" before index and with the barrel hand tight wont close on a new round made safe and stripped bolt.
But anyway here's some pictures of the wrench from your drawing. Worked great but I may have to get someone else involved to help finish mine up.
Attachment 90278Attachment 90279Attachment 90280Attachment 90281

Fantastic! I didn’t even think about welding. I too machining at the vocational school during high school so that’s just the route I always think of.
I really like how you made yours into a proper wrench!
Thanks for sharing this.