Lets play..... what do you think this is used for?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../7gbRTIZ-1.jpg
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Lets play..... what do you think this is used for?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../7gbRTIZ-1.jpg
I have an idea but without a size comparison KtK it's difficult...... Suggest you lay a F/E or Br block against item for size comparison
Wheres the fun in that :madsmile:
Here's something to give it scale
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../I4zjlrW-1.jpg
---------- Post added at 10:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 PM ----------
Another item
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/pMm7x64.jpg[/IMG]
Ah I know that one, its a thingamy jig for what's you call its ... Inch pattern of course!
Come on Armour's, let's have your best guess!
---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------
You haven't been NZ Army skip diving have you Kev...
Second tool is for riveting bayonet handles for the FN...
Well done Jim, I was wondering who was going to get that one first:)
I knew ... honest!:beerchug:
I take it the first one is for riveting the spigot of that grossly oversize BFA together with the front cap?
NOT the FN if we're being pedantic and I can steal BAR's thunder. But for re-rivetting L1 bayonet grips. It also requires another tool, the bit you knock down with the hammer to spread the rivets properly from each side. Hopefully........ But it doesn't work like that. The RIVETS, tubular, aircraft would inevitably split so you'd have to start again. We used to call them RIVETS, tubular, awful!
---------- Post added at 06:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:46 PM ----------
I don't remember those BFA's in Oz or the UK but I'd say for tightening up the rivets for the detent spring on the choke
Rifle bayonets though...? Thus my meaning of FNs...it would work on ours for sure. Yes, there's another piece to sandwich it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
Those huge BFA's were "standard" in Oz and, by extension, NZ.
They were originally painted a bright yellow and later painted "signal red", after some "policy changes".
Regardless of the original colour, at the end of any training that involved the gratuitous consumption of blank ammo, they were all BLACK.
They were also a lot less likely to "go down-range" than the cheesy early pattern ones that consisted of a long bore plug and a riveted-on springy plate that engaged the sword bar / bayonet lug. These seem to be identical to the first pattern devices for the Canadian C-1.
Anyone got any advances?
The first Jig is for repairing/re riveting the locking spring thing on the Australian F1 BFA. In which I just happened to have one of the repaired BFA's in the collection and as you can see fits it perfectly. A BFA with good rivets won't fit onto the jig.
---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:13 PM ----------
The second one is as mentioned used for re-riveting the grips on a L1A1, L1A2, L1A3, L1A4, C1 Bayonets The plan for these is shown in the EMER's. I have a number of different variants of these, this one has been made using a cut in half I-beam as the base. Others I've seen are 2-piece welded together bases. Unfortunitly it didn't come with the corresponding punch.
---------- Post added at 04:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 PM ----------
Something new.
Its about 5 inches long
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../oKdMJ4J-1.jpg
---------- Post added at 04:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:20 PM ----------
Hummmm I wonder what this is?
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../bOatHin-1.jpg
A couple of wild guess's Kev, is the top one something to do with TMH pivot holes?
Bottom one locking shoulder related perhaps?
Top: hummmmm .......... warm
Bottom: cold.... sooooo very cold
Bottom one is a bayonet scabbard mandrel for C1 or L1 bayonets.
:thup:
The bayonet grip tool was just sooooo over engineered. We had one in the A in U cupboard of course but generally speaking everyone had a set of home made top and bottom punches that you'd keep on your bench and use as and when. I note the words SA&MG SECT TRENTHAM. That'll be the ±Base Workshop Small Arms and Machine Gun Section at Trentham.
You're right about the BFA's all being black after a good dose of firing blanks. The crunchies had to hand them back clean after exercises but in getting them clean they'd be using the tyupical rifle cleaning kit such as old nails, sand paper, wire wool,wire/steel brushes that they use for cleaning barnacles off the bottom of ocean liners etc etc. So they'd come back into the armouries clean - but with very little yellow paint on them! The Arms storemen used to dunk them in petrol, dry them out and give them a spray with yellow road marking paint. Then every so often they'd all go into the main workshop to be bead blasted and repainted in hard yellow sunkorite. That'd last a couple of weeks and round we'd go again.
BFA's were a constant source of accidents. Some would just go flying off into orbit around the outer planets, some would do the same but hit the 'enemy' and others would disintegrate if someone loaded a live round by accident. Accidents WILL happen but they kept trying to improve the build and safety regime. I suggested that they ought to accept that, say, 10 crunchies or DS would be killed on each exercise due to being hit by blank assisted bullets etc etc. So just write them off as exercise losses.
I WISH ours were so well treated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
We had instructions to fasten ours on tight, for a while a hose clamp was the medicine. Problem is, ours had to have a flexibility during use and without it they would break at the front of the locking spring at the bottom front. They wouldn't come off but extend forward and be useless. People just wouldn't accept that things that look good aren't always serviceable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
This usually happened when transition range was present, transition from blank to live. Then senior men would have to get their head on straight and keep supervision to a one man checking everything equally. Otherwise a weapon would be overlooked as everyone else thought someone else had checked and it would burst a muzzle from ball contacting a blank. I still can see a FH that was destroyed during a night attack. The man that had the accident was trying to remedy the failure to function and was firing singles at that point...Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
An accident waiting to happen that I recall the most was on a small exercise on an open field firing area and getting into an old trench and dropping a load of blank while reloading some of the magazines. Picked them up and realised that there were live rounds in my hands and I'd picked up a load of live from the floor of the trench. As I was one of the DS, I had to pick them up and keep them safe AND away from the blank that I also had. Blank and BFA's = trouble!
Ours was different, it was a trial type of IVI ammo box, 40 rd. They were two 20s paper taped together. We loaded mags for a deliberate attack at night and even though it was sealed ammo from the ammo wing there was a ball round included. Must have been a repack of some sort. Recruits, under supervision...and used to handling ammo. Still it happened. The huge Ka-Powie happened a few feet to my left and took about 5 paces to be beside. I could see in the flare light the FH turned inverted and was open at the back. I broke it off and kept it.
Now...this is an ammo accident and as Peter and a few others will attest, the book is specific reference what happens next. Segregation of the ammo, rifle, witnesses, the exercise stops until ammo techs arrive to investigate...none of which happened. In the end, the ammo techs and weapon's techs decided that a dirty BFA was to blame and excessive gas. I've seen FNs with the gas plug turned upside down so all the gas went to the barrel just burp when a BFA was on. The pressure must have been fantastic...and no damage.
You should have been there Peter...weapon went to BLR for a new barrel. Bulged muzzle...nice... We never did see 40 rd boxes again.
The Punch is for re-securing a loose Pistol Grip Bushing on the Bottom of the TMH.
Something else ......
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ueIXz33-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../1VEu20L-1.jpg
Nice, mag mandrell for FN mags. L1, C1 or SLR...I guess would be correct. I forgot about you having the most extensive collection of FN stuff known...
The magazine mandrel has a NZ NSN number engraved on it, so I think its something one of the Armourers made. Unfortunitly all these items were in a box that got leaked on hence the rough condition of some of them. They all came from Trentham and were auctioned off as a 'pallet lot of items', back around 1993. It would of been the last of the Armourers equipment to be disposed of.
Can anyone ID these and give the written reference for them?
Don't worry about he 'gunge' its CRC Soft Seal to try and protect them from the heavy rusting.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../RXUplnr-1.jpg
ohhh crap that means I will have to did out the reference for them too. :banghead:
No scale again. Gas block/cylinder reamer/cleaner?
Our magazine mandrill was in 3 parts. The left, right side and the centre part. You slipped the left and right sides in and then knocked the well oiled centre part down between them and in doing so, it pushed the dent out. So when the mag was straight and undented, you pulled the centre plate out and the sides came out cleanly. This was one of the better tools and I don't think that the Armourers made a better version of it
The biggest one is 2 inches long
Ours looked like this one except I think the bottom had a square block to grab in the vise. I find it almost unbelievable that this one was made by a tradesman but stranger things. Our armorers had to make many of their tools, the most common was the butt spring tool for the FN...I'm sure you guys remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
nzl1a1..etc...
Meat tenderizer for the post-exercise barbecue? :beerchug:
The two 'baby' gauges are:
Gauge, Hinge Pin Hole (‘NO GO’)
Gauge, Trigger Mechanism Hinge Pin Hole (‘NO GO’)
These are the Mk. 1 gauges, the design was changed as there is an inherent fault with the design. They are designed to provide a 'NO GO' gauge for the Gas Block, Gas Plug Hole and the Hinge Pin Hole.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../17f4Odr-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../8Xf7rVR-1.jpg
These are the Mk. 2 versions, both sets of gauges were to be made by the Armourers. Ohhh they are shown in the Australian EMEI, not the EMER
Now for something I'm not sure about. At one stage it did have a tag, but that's long gone.
Armourers, put your thinking caps on........ this is as it seems, a 1 inch block of steel with a SLR gas piston welded into a hole in the base. Its a full length Gas Piston. What could this be used for in a Base Workshop ......... it might not of even been used with L1A1 rifles. Any and all ideas welcomed.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../uo0YvqF-1.jpg
Quoits at smoko?:)
Trench (workshop) art, 1970's style.
Ok, Ok.... I've figured it out..... but only because I looked closely at this chunk of Brass 4" dia x 2 3/4" long
I was just about to post these photos to ask what was it used for, I had tried it on the piston and it seemed to fit it ok.... but for what?
I went to measure it to keep Pete happy ;) and under some Verdigris I found engraved "8.5 lb Gauge Testing Piston Spring Compression L1A1"
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../33wRvCu-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../iA2HDu5-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Z3YbHga-1.jpg
Here's what it looks like when the parts are back together
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../50k9qyE-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../fZNWgWy-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../RgaeUUQ-1.jpg
Interesting Kev, thanks for posting.
I must admit I am surprised they would bother testing piston springs, I thought they would just be a line replacement part and replaced on an occasional basis?
Towards the end of service Trentham was rebuilding 100 rifles a week. Unlike maybe the American's New Zealand couldn't afford to simply just throw away usable parts. If it was serviceable it was reused. So this gauge was made in house to provide an easy test to check that the spring complied with the required compression under an 8.5 lb load. This way they could quickly and easily check 100 springs at a time, those that failed went to the bin, the other were reused and supplemented with replacements from stores.
We simply didn't work like that Clarkie (thread 34) and KtK is dead right in thread 35. The In-inspector would do an in-inspection and the rifle and worksheet would come in to you. But it was your responsibility to check everything. Spring weights and loadings etc etc. I can't ever think of an example where parts would be replaced on a casual basis. Only when they were unserviceable - or in the case of parts that could be refurbished, such as handguards, butts, butt plates etc etc where they were simply past fixing. Then, 25 rifles might come in but leave with 25 sets of reworked woodwork and later during a bit of a slack period the old would be sifted and reworked/patched etc etc ready for the next lot
Of springs, we had two sorts of testing. The spring loading weights as shown, These were load tested because they were subject to extremely high temperatures. Then there were the length tests, usually used on, say, return springs. At the big workshops we usually had a wood tray, marked with the various spring lengths. If the spring was below or shorter than the marked length, it was scrapped. We also used to roll them across the surface plate to test for bends. You could be a bit pedantic about bent springs. A slight bend that didn't interfere with the operation of the gun could be ignored (? but never on a trade test of course.....) but occasionally, with experience you knew when to reverse bend the bend out or............ anyway!
Many thanks Peter and Kev, another very interesting insight into all things L1A1.
I just wrongly assumed through my layman's eyes, that items like this (springs) would be available by the box and replacing piston and perhaps hammer springs with new parts during workshop inspection would keep a rifle as reliable as possible.
I guess as I was in the motor trade for 20 years, its just my mindset...
Don't beat yourself up about it. Your right it all comes down to perception. In a lot of private companies you would simply replace what is worn, why not the customer is paying for it and most cases expecting it. The Customer of the Army is the Government and they hate to spend money on things that they really don't want to spend money on, regardless of what it may seem like at times when you hear about what they waist spending on.
Collectors are a great one for perception, verses real world actuality. Such as the questions I get like whats the correct sling, part, accessory for the L1A1 rifle. The Army didn't care if something was 100 years old or made by X, Y, or Z company, or is a Mk. 2, Mk. C, Mk. 10 part, so long as it was serviceable it was used until it didn't work, then and only then would it be scraped, sold off, or buried. Now the only time that changed was when the bean counters got involved and equipment that had been sitting around for years was considered to be costing money as it sits there doing nothing, so off to disposals it goes to get rid of it. You see, in today's world if you need something it can be sent from the far flung reaches of the world by ordering it through the system. I saw a pallet of new Web belts come up for auction, nothing wrong with them, they wereen't obsolete or out of spec. They were just sitting around too long so they got rid of them. Well of course they could of got it wrong and sent the wrong NSN item to disposal?
Document spindle in the "Production" office"?
Yep, you're right. Stores held on the shelves at Ordnance are just an expensive way of storing fresh air and when the Ord Depots were privatised, space cost a LOT of money...., that's how they MADE money, by renting it out. It was argued that instead of stocking up on stuff, it was easier and simpler to just order from the manufacturers on a 'just-in-time' basis. Alas......., just-in-time doesn't cater for the just-in-case' scenario that we used to encounter. Think SUSAT sights.