Rare/prototype U.S. M1917 helmet, or a fake?

I found an M1917 (I believe anyway) helmet at an antique shop today. It was labeled simply "WWI Helmet". First I have ever even seen in person in my life, so my level of knowledge/research on the subject is not huge. I did make sure that the bail holders were riveted, and to my eye, the finish is correct as well. I did manage to find a magnet to test with and the shell itself is not magnetic, as it should be, the strip of metal along the rim of the helmet is magnetic.

Now for the reason I took a chance in buying the helmet. Quick research told me that the stamped markings usually start with a Z and include a string of numbers. This one literally says nothing other than "4B", and there's a blue paint marking that says MT-1.

Here are the markings:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../ekXgLQI-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../KapYW8U-1.jpg

Here are the rest of the pictures of the helmet:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../gn5cRVY-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../g0XMMuC-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Bgpl8GS-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../T9fHK61-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../OGGq4TP-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../AMDchn0-1.jpg

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../1uhGDzN-1.jpg

So what do you think? Did I get duped, or could this be something unique?

Looks like a early WW2 helmet like the type used at Wake and Bataan before the U.S. switched to the M-1.

That sounds interesting. Any particular reason you say that? I haven't seen much information on the early WWII M1917 helmets.

The "4B" is a McCord Radiator stamp for the M17A1 (aka "Kelly") helmet. They were produced Nov.1940 thru May 1941. I believe they were numbered 1-24. The dark green color and cork coating (to reduce the possibility of ight reflection) is very close to what the first M1 helmets had applied. They also had a leather liner and cloth chinstraps similar to the first M1s.
The WW1 M17 is almost identical to the British Mk1 (Brodie) from which it was copied. They were a lighter Khaki color and were coated with sawdust for anti-glare.

BEAR (BDY)

Wow, thank you for that information. Where did you even find that Bear? Everything Other than the direct meaning of 4B I had known. I couldn't find any of that sort of information for the M17A1.

Information is found at different site and books. Some of the web pages I use are:
Brendon's Helmets (Brendon's Helmets - Military Steel Combat Helmets of the World)
The Brodie Helmet (M1917A1 - The Brodie Helmet and its derivatives)
US Militaria Forum (STEEL AND KEVLAR HELMETS - U.S. Militaria Forum) There is a post there now concerning M17A1s
and, of course, this forum and the great folks that come here.

If you are looking to put a liner in that shell then I would consider using Prairie Flower Leather Co. (Military Reproductions). Yes, they are reproductions but finding the real liners are next to impossible.

BEAR (BDY)

This forum has direct and clear info on all of that. They're invaluable... WW2 German, Soviet, Allied militaria, uniforms, awards, weapons history. War relics forum

Here is another great site: World War Helmets (.: World War Helmets - Etats-Unis :.)
Great pictures and even better information (if you speak French).
Don't speak the language? Oh well, do the Playboy thing and enjoy the pictures.

BEAR (BDY)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BEAR

Don't speak the language?

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Google translate will help you there...cut and paste into the translate engine. Where was that for my first overseas trip?

Does anyone know if any of these U.S. made "Brodie" style helmets were ever made under contract or sent under lend lease to the U.K. during WW2, please? I have never heard it suggested that they were but equally I have never heard that they were not. Perhaps someone has one that is known to have seen British service. Logically I can see no reason why they should not have been sent to the U.K., for British service.

I have never read anything about Britain getting US M1917 as a lend lease. Britain manufactured 7.5 million MkI during the Great War and most of those went into war stocks. The war stock helmets were converted into MkI*s in 1936. The MkIIs started production in 1938 and 12 million were made until they were replaced by the MkIIIs.
Australia started making their MkIIs in 1939 and accounted for 2 million.
Canada was the only country that I have read about that received US M1917s and began a refitting program in 1940 that converted their MkIs and M1917s to MkIIs. Approximately 26000 were converted. Canada also manufactured 1.1 million MkIIs between 1940-1943.
Looks like they had plenty of helmets to go around. Just my humble opinion.

I own a Canadian MkII made by General Steel Wares in 1941 (stamped MkI).

BEAR (BDY)

Thank you again for all of that information, BEAR. You are a quite literally a wealth of knowledge. I had actually stumbled upon the military reproductions website looking for more information on the helmets. I would definitely consider getting it back in working order, although I wonder if it is even worth it at that point without taking care of the rust and refinishing it first, which in itself also seems like a shame.

Thanks for those kind words, but most of my knowledge comes from the websites I visit and books that I read. I do have some first hand knowledge on the M1s of the Vietnam era to the K-pots of the early 90s (mostly airborne helmets). It wasn't until I left the service in the early 90s did I find out that the M1s of WW2 are different from the M1s of Vietnam and that started me on research studies of most US helmets and now other nation's helmets. But I am just a novice collector.
Ask questions about rust removal on your helmet without damaging the finish. There are lots of guys more knowledgeable than I and can give you good advise.
Go slow and good luck!

BEAR (BDY)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flying10uk

Does anyone know if any of these U.S. made "Brodie" style helmets were ever made under contract or sent under lend lease to the U.K. during WW2, please? I have never heard it suggested that they were but equally I have never heard that they were not. Perhaps someone has one that is known to have seen British service. Logically I can see no reason why they should not have been sent to the U.K., for British service.

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They were sent to the Philippines during early WW2 , used by the Philippine Scouts, also used by the Chinese Nationalists, and Ive also seen them used by Morrocan troops during WW2

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo..._wheeler-1.jpg