1905 Ross buldging brass

Hi I have a 1905 Ross sprtized in 303 brit. I've read that they had the chambers reamed to make extraction easier. The one I have only puffes the shoulder and neck is this normal? The rest of the case stays almost in spec. It puffes the neck so much I can fit the neck of a live round in it. This may be normal but I'm new to the 1905 model and my 280 Ross almost stays all in spec when fired. This just seem extreme or maybe it was chambered for a different round? Any insights on this would be vary helpful. Thanks!

Do you have pics of the brass?

Do the shoulders blow forward to a steeper angle and the sidewalls straighten out? Perhaps rechambered for 303 Epps? Though this wouldn't explain the neck.

When you drop a live round in the muzzle end does it sit part way up the projectile or swallow it up to the neck?

I slugged the bore it is .310. The neck opens to .332 ID but the side walls stay almost perfect. The neck rounds out more and gets less angle. I haven't quit figured out how to load pics on here from my phone yet

Send me the pics by email and I'll load them...so we can see. Check your PM for my address...

In my experience this was the standard military factory chamber for the MkII Ross with Sight MkIII and the II***. This chamber has nothing to do with the chamber mods done to the MkIII in 1914-15.

Here are the pics as passed to me for this rifle...

That's definitely a wildcatted chamber...not even close to .303.

Thanks for posting the pics. I was looking in a reloading manual and noticed a round called 303 magnum looked close maybe it was chambered for that. My manual has no mesurments for the 303 magnum tho.

Try these two and see if you can match it up... .303 Magnum - Wikipedia

.303 Magnum

So I measured with the 303 magnum measurement on those sites and there farther off then the 303 brit round. Found out that 280 Ross brass can make 303 magnum tho haha I've been making 280 Ross from 375 ruger guess the 303 magnum is even harder to come by then the 280 Ross.

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Originally Posted by bagograss

there farther off then the 303 brit round.

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So, you're measuring the live round or the fired round? How far off? Doing a chamber cast would help us...

In the 1967 Handloader's Digest There is a Wildcat called the .303 Epps improved developed by Ellwood Epps on the .303 British case. It was recommended for actions later than the No 1 MIII* and later actions. It had some good ballistics. Looks similar to this one and would work in a Ross MKII 3* or later M1905 actions.
FWIW

See pic for Epps dimensions from a reloading & accurizing book I have ~ The Accurate Lee Enfield No.1 (S.M.L.Es) & No.4 rifles By Stephen Redgwell Gun Plumber Press 2001

Thanks for that info. I'm going to try to load a picture of the demenstions of a fired case up here later tonight.

I have seen those ballistics data, but did not publish them, as I find it difficult to believe that one could attain 300 H&H velocities in a .303 case without operating at PROOF pressures +. These data were published using old DuPont powders of the 1960's which may not the same that is available today.
JMHO

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Originally Posted by Cosine26

old DuPont powders of the 1960's which may not be the same that is available today

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That's a fact...

So here is the ross I have and this is the dimensions im getting from the fired brass. the markings on the barrel in the pics are all that I can find on it seems a lot of sanding has been done to this rifle.

From another source: These dimensions are not quite to what your diagram shows.

.303 Epps case:

Length 2.16"
head diameter .455"
rim diameter .540"
neck diameter .339"
neck length .278"
shoulder length .081"
shoulder diameter .447"
length head to shoulder 1.88"
shoulder angle 42.87 degrees

Surprised Midway has dies from RCBS in .303 Epps. Perhaps RCBS can show the dimensions of the die.

303 British Improved (Epps) - 9768 - MidwayUSA

Reamer rentals show .303 Epps reamers.... who would guess....

303 Caliber

That does seem vary close just the shoulder diameter is so far off. I just tried sizing with my 303 brit dies and only going part way in so not sizing the whole case. I loaded them with some cast 100gr and trail boss they seem to chamber nice and not stretch out I haven't had to trim in 3 loads so far.

I fired my Ross M1905 for the first time today at a friends range and was coming to the board with that exact happenstance. I used HXP-76 ammo and, as can be seen, there are no pressure signs. The rifle is U.S. marked and I received it from a gentleman who found it in a wall of a house he and his grandfather tore down over 40 years ago and he's had it ever since. Being in Kentucky, I assume it came from the Ohio camp. By the way, other than the butt plate being rusty and slightly pitted, the rifle was in excellent condition and the bore bright and shiny and the rifle still in original condition, not being sporterized. The bore gauges at .310 in the grooves, and using my TE gauge, it is a 1. She fired well and accurate at 100 yards, impacting six inches high when holding at the bottom of the target using the sights down and grouping well. My friend and I were puzzled by the fire forming of the brass. He had some .280 Ross on hand and the casing didn't meet the specs. I don't know what to make of it. Any thoughts?

I read the related post by "boltaction" dated 3-01-2013;

"A lot of the Mk II3* and some of the 5* had their chambers reamed out to deal with the issue of the differences between .303 British and .303 Ross, so the rifles do horrible things to the brass when you shoot them, but a lot of guys still shoot them. If the bolt functions well, the chamber and bore are in good condition, and the gun checks out, you should be fine to go."

I guess this would be an answer to the question. Cheers, Bruce.

bagograss, I have seen quite a few early Ross Mk II rifles with chambers reamed out similar to yours, including a couple of factory sporters. From what I can see you are heading in the right direction in dealing with it. As long as your not splitting cases, you`ll be alright.

Interesting rifle you have there. Would it be possible to see some more pictures please. (full length, front sight etc.) Looks like a later Mk II** action, bolt, trigger mated to a very early barrel. If this the case, I wonder how this would have been done, as the threads would be very different.

Haha good to know I'm not the only one with an oddball barrel. I started just pushing them less into the sizing die seems to work good they chamber nice and I'm on the 4th reload with no lost cases. I've just been shooting cast 100gr bullets in it tho at low velocity.

Any chance on more pics of your rifle?

What markings on on the barrel over the chamber?

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Originally Posted by bagograss

Hi I have a 1905 Ross sprtized in 303 brit. I've read that they had the chambers reamed to make extraction easier. The one I have only puffes the shoulder and neck is this normal? The rest of the case stays almost in spec. It puffes the neck so much I can fit the neck of a live round in it. This may be normal but I'm new to the 1905 model and my 280 Ross almost stays all in spec when fired. This just seem extreme or maybe it was chambered for a different round? Any insights on this would be vary helpful. Thanks!

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I had an mkII 5* that when fired produced a case that looks identical to yours. I was able to reload the cases by running them into a std .303 sizer die. Lube the case generously inside the neck and the outside case body, then run into and out of the sizer quickly and firmly as it takes a fair bit of pressure to size that well oversized case back to normal dimensions.

I don't know what your case life would be, but if you anneal the neck and shoulder after about the 3rd firing, case life should be ok, and the sizing will go easier. I was able to resize and fire each case 3 times before annealing, but use your own judgement there.

Les

Thanks for the info. It really has no markings left when it was sportized most where sanded off.

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Originally Posted by jakester

I don't know what your case life would be,

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If you're fireforming the cases like that with each shot, it won't be too much I think. But with .303, it ain't great anyway...

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Originally Posted by bagograss

Thanks for the info. It really has no markings left when it was sportized most where sanded off.

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Even though it has been polished, you can still see the year (1906) over D ^ C on left side over the chamber. Only the MK I and very early MK II were marked this way.

How long is the barrel and what does the front sight sight look like?

The barrel is 21 3/8" to the front of the reciver. The front sight is soldered on and looks like a long sport style sight. I'll try to get a pic up in a day or two