Forty buck Berthier

Found this old girl today sitting off to the side at the local fun show today. Forty bucks later she's mine.
It is a St Etienne produced M1905/07, with the M16 mag upgrade.
I do love the old French gals, but sometimes they continue to befuddle me. I have seen Berthier M16s marked 'M16'. This one is simply marked '1905-07'. Were the upgrades in progress before rifles were officially designated 'M16'? I see way more images online of this model with the standard three round config as opposed to ones with the five round mod (those being ones not marked M16)
I do plan to restore this one back to her former glory. Would this one have had an upper hand guard?
Barrel is stamped MAS 1917.
She is not 'N' marked either. I have always been led to believe rifles not so marked never made it back to France after the Great War for the big overhaul.
Range report soon, too. Bore is really good!

Of course I meant '1907-15'.

Good price but you're going to have a heck of a time finding a stock for it. Parts for these can be tough. Looks like you need a stock, middle band with round ring on side, upper hand guard and bayonet lug/front band. Handguard and stock will be the hardest.

Company called Liberty Tree has all the parts, albeit a bit pricey. But I figure this one is worth putting back.

Found an interesting photo yesterday. I know there's been a lot of discussion as to how much the Berthier M-16 was used in the Great War..this is a closeup of from an old photo showing a German assault.

One of the original hi cap assault rifles...

Its not the upgrades were in progress before the 'M16' designation, it is that they upgraded rifles post-war to the M16 configuration (in fact they made quite a few 'M16' without the 'M16' features as it was easy to change the receiver markings, harder to actually get the proper parts).

The M16 wasn't used that much in WWI as the M16 pattern was only standardized in 1916, and it took a bit to get them fully manufactured. Plus they didn't issue the M16 out piecemeal as it would be dumb to issue the 5rd rifles mixed in with the 3rd rifles or even Lebels, as it would have created ammo logistical issues. By the end of WWI they were issuing 8mm Lebel in 4 different forms just for small arms (not including MGs) depending on what you were issued. Packets of loose rounds for the Lebel, 3rd loaded clips for the Berthiers, 5rd clips for the RSC 1917, and 5rd clips for the M16 Berthiers. Must have made there poor logistics department head spin.

As you only paid $40 it would be worth the money to find a junker with a bad bore or else buy the missing parts.

The really rare variation is the Model 1902 Indo-China rifle, interesting that some of these came back to the USA from Viet Nam veterans

The Mann Berthier was never used as a scope mounted sniper nor as a grenade launcher rifle. Only the Lebel was used as a sniperAttachment 88193Attachment 88194Attachment 88195

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Originally Posted by Eaglelord17

Its not the upgrades were in progress before the 'M16' designation, it is that they upgraded rifles post-war to the M16 configuration (in fact they made quite a few 'M16' without the 'M16' features as it was easy to change the receiver markings, harder to actually get the proper parts).

The M16 wasn't used that much in WWI as the M16 pattern was only standardized in 1916, and it took a bit to get them fully manufactured. Plus they didn't issue the M16 out piecemeal as it would be dumb to issue the 5rd rifles mixed in with the 3rd rifles or even Lebels, as it would have created ammo logistical issues. By the end of WWI they were issuing 8mm Lebel in 4 different forms just for small arms (not including MGs) depending on what you were issued. Packets of loose rounds for the Lebel, 3rd loaded clips for the Berthiers, 5rd clips for the RSC 1917, and 5rd clips for the M16 Berthiers. Must have made there poor logistics department head spin.

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That's pretty much the answer I was looking for. I just found a photo of a 1907/15 sans upper hand guard..that's how I'm going to approach this one.

Anzac. Nice find. I almost bought one like it from a LCS. It was cut down just like yours but a Remington. They wanted 90 dollars for it. I turned it down though because the top of the receiver ring had a large flat ground into it for a sight to be mounted--ugh. Yours seems to be very restorable and a good one to start with. Have fun! Salt Flat

I know an excellent video that might answer your question here:

Forgotten Weapons with Ian McCollum: The Berthier Gets an Upgrade: The Model 1916 - YouTube

rare colour photograph of French colonial (Senegalese) troops. They are keeping their Berthiers (or Lebels) clean with a sock with the toe cut off, and some sort of muzzle cover too. Just on the edge of the shot is a Chauchat machine rifle, with its action cover in place. Alsace, June 6th 1917.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg