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Evenin all...
Took the old No4 Mk1 out today and while the windage is spot on for me I am consistently 8 Inches high on the target at 100M
What height front blades would this equate to? There has to be a formula somewhere I just am struggling to find an acceptable search terminology that gives that information.
If someone could point me in the right direction I would be most grateful.
Pete.
I watched Rifle Chairs video on the site when I ran into the same problem. I was able to select the right front site that suited my purpose from what I learned. It's in the Enfield section.
https://www.milsurps.com/enfield.php?pg=ti12.htm
Never mind... went down the rabbithole and found it.
It all depends on which ammunition you are using. The sight blades and the formula for adjustments are all for when using NATO .303" Mk7 ball ammunition.
Peter. Thanks for the reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Laidler
I was using the Remington UMC 174Gr FMJFB Ammunition That I could find here in Edmonton. 2475FPS at the Muzzle.
It seems to be a little hotter than the VII round at 2440.... I'll have to workout the MPI for the Remington stuff but would the correlation between impact at given range and sight radius be consistent? The slightly faster Remington round would then need to be DOPE'd to the rear sight for range purposes correct?
Am I looking at this the wrong way?
The IDEA - and shoot me now (!) is to handload a 174Gr Sierra Match King HPBT Round to approximately 2440FPS (Depending on the node) and then only shoot this rifle with that load. That said... Some people say they get great results and some say they do not with Boat tailed commercial rounds... If you have thoughts I would love to know them Peter. It's always a good day to learn.
I have been unable in Canada to find any VII surplus ball ammunition... I know a guy but chance of him letting any go is slim.
Thanks again for any, and all, help.
Pete.
Assume your ammo does not change, then the following calculation will work:
Draw a right angle triangle with base 100m and height 8 inches. That is the same in cm as10000cm long and 20cm high. The ratio of base:height is 500:1. Measure the distance of your rear sight to your sight blade. Divide this distance by 500. Increase the height of your front sight by this amount. Your point of impact will now be 8 inches lower.
Rob
Pete: I've found the Remington-UMC 174 grn FMJ quite well calibrated to sights on several No. 1, No. 4 and No. 3 rifles out to 400 yards. Which sight are you using at 100m? The battle sight or the folding sight cranked down below the 200 yard setting? Going through the calculation (as per RobD) I'm getting 0.064" taller blade required.
Ridolpho
Ridolpho - Yep. I am using the Folding aperture sight (B marked 1300M Micrometer style) cranked below 200M - I understand that there will be some offset anyway as the sight is not actually calibrated for the ammo or the range.
Perhaps what I will do is shoot at 200 Yards, not Meters, same ammunition from a lead sled to minimize disturbance and record the data on a Zeroing Target 2ft x 4ft - Actual Elevation offset for me as a shooter would then be available to me with minimal guesswork in the system as the sights are at a known range, instead of just "I'll go below that indicated range until it stops" - Yeah. I think that's what i'm going to do.
Consider buying a No.4 Infantry Training Pam. All of the information being discussed here is included. Sorry if I sound like a broken record but…….
Pete, had a similar problem earlier in the year, all the info you need is down in my thread, kindly pointed at by our " A team"Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete Holt
https://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=60964
It's like bvuying a car without getting the user handbook. It's all there........., in the user handbook! From Brian - and cheap too!
Reminds me of a car forum a few months ago. A bloke was asking about wiring up a new standard wiper motor or something to his car. Just 3 or 4 wires to plug into 3 or 4 spade terminals on the new motor. It went on for two pages but the simple colour coded wiring diagram was in the drivers handbook!
Aim 8 inches lower.
I get a similar problem with my SMLE III. After 200 yards things sort themselves out. At short range I simply 'Aim off'.
I have a 1943 Long Branch No 4 Mk 1* (sadly mismatched :()
So using the formula that was kindly posted, (28.5" x 8") / 3600 gives me .063.
My front sight height - as stamped - is .075. 0.075 + 0.063 gives me 0.138. According to the information in Lee Enfield Sighting Basics, the tallest sight I can get is 0.090. Am I SOL getting the battle sight zero at 100 yds without having to aim off?
If you have a standard Mk2 rear sight (which you won't necessarily with a 1943 LB) - you can use an AJP 8/53 rear sight attachment. They are fantastically useful and make the rear aperture just a teeeny bit lower that it is on the actual sight itself. its restricts the range you can shoot to but I'm guessing that's not an issue with most people.
A while ago I was going to get to the range with 174gn SMK's with various weighted AR 2209 powder from a smallest load allowed to perhaps where the IP=AP in other words using a high BC bullet driven slowly so it rainbows and the sight setting matches the range being shot.
There are a couple of things I reckon I am going to run into firstly the Sierra BC (Ballistic Coefficent)alters with velocity its .499 at 2200fps+, .493 from 2200fps - 1800fps then .480 below 1800fps so the faster it flies the flatter its going to shoot that's why with modern bullets the rifle sights do not match the impact point they fly flatter so your shooting higher if you get the drift but OP's observations prove it.
So if you get the rifle zeroed at 200 you could be out at the longer ranges, I played with loads and projies a fair bit and the new bullet factory ones are showing promise but I have had other priorities in my existence that have taken precedence other than sling lead down range.
When things get a bit more sane and I get it together I have the rounds loaded and just have to borrow my mates lab radar which he has lent me before then get back to you all, thing is I have had to make up DOPE data on all my 303's for the ranges we shoot 50-600m I keep a pad in the gun box and an excel spread sheet with each rifles sight settings as the load stays the same for all my 303 rifles.
It may work out but I am of the opinion unless by some miracle it transpires velocity with modern bullets getting it low enough to rainbow it may have stability issues even with a 1/10" twist at the longer ranges trying to emulate the MKVII trajectories which may make it a fruitless task.
But I said I was going to do it and send my results to another member whom is also playing around with the SMK & Bullet Factory 174gn HPFB .312's along a similar vein.
The other day a found on the net & purchased 600/174gn Highland 303 projectiles having used the allot these went very close to the MkVII's but they are not being made anymore so I am saving them for a comp when I get the inclination to start shooting my 303's till then you can either play around with the front sight or do the range time like allot of us have done to get the DOPE with the load you use in your 303. Cheers.