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In addition to my father, uncle and others who heard about it on the radio at home, I knew two guys that were on active duty when it happened.
One was a SGT stationed in HI and in his quarters on Ft Shafter.
The other was a CPL stationed in the Canal Zone and in a bar in Panama when the MPs came around rounding up all soldiers on pass.
My Grandfather was a Costal Artilleryman on Corregidor. Needless to say it got very intense for him and the rest quickly. After the Death March and movement to a few POW camps in the PI he was put onboard one of the Hell Ships. Once arriving in Japan he worked in the coal mines owned by Mitsubishi. Liberated shortly after the surrender he was 6ft 1in tall and weighed 97 pounds. Paralyzed on his left side for life due to beatings with a cane pole to the cervical(neck). He retired with full disability and also received some sort of compensation monthly from the Japanese government. He lived out his days in and out of McGuire's Veteran Hospital in Richmond, VA. We would visit where the WW1 vets would sit under shade trees and watch the WW2 and Korean war vets participate in wheel chair races on Sunday afternoons. Had a mean *** Chihuahua whom he spoke to in Japanese, they were forced to learn Japanese while in captivity. He also had to testify at a war crime tribunal where he and other POW's were given the option of seeing former guards hung. He would only speak to my Father about his experiences as my Brother and I were too young.
Bruce, spoke to the Bataan Death March survivors reunion @ Fort Devens in '91 or so. Found out some interesting stuff while doing research. The Americans and Filipinos (We) fought well. The Japs didn't always have their way. Several Regimental and below actions that stopped them cold. The Japanese Commander had to cease offensive operations to refit/ regroup for a period. Our defensive/ delaying actions were taught at the Japanese Imperial War College during the War.
Their treatment of allied POWs was inhuman. I think one of the final indignities of the March was when we arrived at the beach, the Japs purposely did not have transport to carry the POWs to the ships off shore that would carry them to the POW camps etc. At bayonet point, they made the survivors swim to the ships. Many were too emaciated and sick and drowned.
It has been 76 years, but is still a vivid image to many. We honor them all.
My wife's Grandfather was at Pearl on the USS Raleigh. He passed away before she was born. I had a great uncle who was in the US Army. Joined in 1942 & went all the way across the Pacific to Japan. My hat is off to all those of the "greatest generation". It's sad how many people in our nation alone have forgotten, and overlook what happened on this date so many years ago.
My dad told me about that day, and how he was listening to the radio along with everyone else in Chicago. On 9/11, he told me the sense of deja vu was too overpowering. He and his brothers all fought in the Pacific. My dad was on Iwo Jima and Saipan, his brothers everywhere from Gaudacanal, Saipan Tiinian, and more. They are all passed on now, and finally have peace. They were the greatest generation... I thank them all, men and women of the time, for their incredible sacrifices.
You are absolutely correct. Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster
My Dad volunteered for the draft within six months of Pearl... He went on to make a career of the Army after getting a chance at OCS -retiring out after 28 years in Corps of Engineers in 1970 or 71... By the time I was 12 I'd lived in five different countries - and everything I am stems from that upbringing (He also did two tours in Vietnam towards the end of his career - I did one shortened tour in 1971...). That war, starting with Pearl had vast consequences for the world we inherited. I'll be 70 next year and I still miss my Dad...
What may not be understood about the "greatest generation" - was that they simply had no choice but to hit the ground running since the welfare world we know today didn't exist back then and it was get going -or starve...
Back then and when we were growing up in the 50's and 60's people looked on the military with thanks and respect. A larger pecent of the population was serving or had served in one branch or the other. During WW2 9% of the population served. In relation, today .4 of one percent are serving. With less than 7% of the total population having ever served.
They earned the title of the "Greatest Generation".
Spot on !Quote:
Originally Posted by lemaymiami
Those of us who had family serve in WWII and or Korea, but were to young to serve in Vietnam, looked at our Vietnam vets as 'OUR' Greatest Generation. Very much like how our current Vets now serving are getting respected.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s
Times are changing.... Our military and their families are starting to get what they deserve... The love and respect from us civies.
:cheers:
CH-P777
If I may add,
The Vietnam Draft, The story told by my Uncle Vernon about how mad he was about being drafted. He said there he set in school when they came after him to report. He had no idea at this point he'd even been drafted. When I asked him if that was what upset him, he'd say no. It was the fact he was the only one taken out of school to report. At the time he was in 6th grade :confused:
He was rejected because of eye problems. But the story has lived on and still provides countless laughs !
Cheers
Charlie-Painter777
I went to my recruiter in the late summer of 1967 - after being suspended from college for one semester... As the little old dean put it -"Son, you're going to continue your education by other means...." and I suspect they notified my draft board immediately.... This was well before the lottery and anyone not in school was prime draft material. I signed up and it took a few months before they brought me aboard - in the meantime I got two draft notices and took each one to my recruiter to deal with... I finally took the oath in early January 1968. For me it was like finally growing up since I'd lived on military bases all my life in one place or another. -and I did "continue my education"....
I didn't have the means to pay for a four year college. After my servicetime the GI bill allowed me that opportunity.
Ken Burns "The War" was an excellent description of the war and how it effected those on the front and those at home.
Watching the news and some young folks I know the often used label of "snowflake" really seems to fit. It seems as though life has become to easy for the young. The deprivation & hard ship of my grandparents & parents generation and even the earlier "baby boomers" seems to me to provide a level of
toughness which to a great degree is lacking in many of subsequent generations. There are obviously exceptions to this generalization. I am wondering if others here find this to be true?
I did 22 years in police work and was lucky enough to rise in rank during those years... At one point I was in charge of personnel functions for my 100 man agency and as a result got to interview many young candidates for police officer, both male and female... As a rule candidates with military service were head and shoulders above the others - no matter how well educated the other candidates might have been... so they were the first ones we considered if possible.... The only candidates with a better chance at being hired were those that brought additional languages to the table (and we needed every language under the sun -not just the spanish you'd expect in south Florida..).
Nothing like military service to mature and give a sense of discipline and responsibility in my opinion. Yes, you can obtain it "elsewhere" but the military does it much quicker and better. Veterans as a group are just head and shoulders above folks who've spent all their years in school with very minor real world experience....
I have no idea how policing selects their candidates these days since I retired out in 1995....
Chatting with the recruiting officers (Highway Patrol, CSPD, El Paso County Sherriff, Douglas County Sheriff, DPD, and PPD) military experience is highly desired.Quote:
Originally Posted by lemaymiami
Folks talking about Vietnam and the draft. I was already "in" when I read the draft numbers. I was 322. If I hadn't raised my right hand earlier, I probably would have never had the honor of serving.
I was already in as well.
But if I had waited my draft lottery number in 1969 was 35, and in 1970 it was 29.
Glad I enlisted.
The best Pearl Harbor story I ever heard was from my best friend's father. He was a Marine stationed at Kaneohe and was walking guard duty when the Japanese aircraft attacked. He said that he and two other guys were on a hillside up high in some large rocks. He said that the Zeros would make their attack and pull straight up the side of the cliff and then stall off and redive back down onto the base below. There was a BAR man with him but the guy was too frightened to do much and ultimately soiled himself out of fear. If the pilots had seen these guys they were dead meat and they knew it. JB said that the Zeros were so close that you could hear the 30 Cal rounds from their '03s smack into the sheet metal as they slowly turned back into the valley. Apparently someone hit one of the pilots as the guy skidded into the ground and the engine flew off the front and into someones house. JB went on to land at Saipan later in the war. I can't imagine what that must have been like, shooting point blank into the belly of a Japanese zero while trying to keep down and not be seen.
I agree. I was born in 1952, the last of four kids. My dad, the Iwo Jima veteran, worked two jobs to take care of us. We ate food from the garden, marked down meat, and would split a pound of hamburger 6 ways for dinner. Virtually all of my clothes were hand-me-downs from my older brothers. I walked a mile each way to grammar school. I started working at 12 for neighbors, and 15 as a dishwasher at a restaurant that I rode my bike 5 miles each way. We were raised to work hard and contribute to society. My sister was a nurse for 40 years, many of that as a nurse in the Army reserve. One brother was a Capt. in Vietnam, one in the Peace Corp, and me in the Army, Air Force Reserve, then as a cop.Quote:
Originally Posted by HOOKED ON HISTORY
My kids are in their 40s, and all started working in their teens if that wanted to buy something. I raised 5 on a cop's pay, so there was not much extra, so in many ways mirrored the upbringing I had. Consequently, they are all successful. My son the Fire Chief complains about the 20 somethings and their terrible work ethic. He (and my other kids) thank me for raising them to work and contribute.
No small feat there.Quote:
Originally Posted by imarangemaster
No offspring here but it sounds as though you took up my slack. Thank you for that, and raising them the way I hope that I would have had I been fortunate enough to have any.
A friend of mine's parents raised four on a grocery store Managers pay with a SAH mom. All share the parents work ethic and are successful in their chosen fields.
Probably more out there than I think. The snow flakes get all the press.
Yamamoto's words came back to bite him as he stated "I fear we have awoken a sleeping giant." after the Pearl attack.
One of my Uncles volunteered for active service in WWII but was unfit for duty, but that did not stop the bastard$ of the day "Tar & Feathering" him for a long time he used to receive a white feather in the mail.
I also believe though the WWI generation were of an equal caliber as the WWII generation of which we know so much about the bloody conditions they went through which we may surmise was the catalyst for the WWII generation being so devoted to the cause to rid the world of evil.
I brought a book & have just started to read "The Black Watch" Fighting in the front line 1899 - 2006 By Victoria Schofield it is very interesting read so far but I now have to go out & get the 1st volume she did to complete the history.
I am afraid this generation has not the drive of us that had to endure starving and raggity clothes. We were seven in the house(I was ar$e end charlie of the brood) my Dad was TPI from the war mum worked as a cleaner at night to help supplement the meager earnings from our corner shop.
I started work in a stable in Grade 5 picking up horse $hit by hand before school so I could buy small toys then sold newspapers and so on.
But as a child I ate plenty of black sand from our back yard as GI Joe & I fought the plastic grey soldiers that kept attacking our home.
Like most of us here was raised with the genre if you wanted something you sweated blood to get it that way you respected what you brought.
Now days in the throw away society they do not have the same drive as we the generation that gets closer to the finish line each day have.
I worked with a POW of the Germans in WWII for a couple of years of a story I will tell perhaps later anyway we were building a wooden crossover bridge on the farm and eating smoko of course we were talking of WWII.
I said that there seemed to be a shift in the attitude in society (1979 this was) when he Ken (Dec) turned to me and said this;
"In days of old we had men of steel and buildings of wood."
"Today we have buildings of steel and men of wood."
I have never forgotten his words to this day I reckon he was spot on.
Combat soldiers from any war have seen and been through a lot. I don't feel any generation of these men are better or greater than another. Just earlier or later.
That time changes a person. They may not talk about it, but they feel it inside and will carry it to their grave.
The men I served with, when we have a reunion, never talk about our combat time. All we talk about is "how is your family doing. Any new grandkids", stuff like that. We give each other a look or a nod when they lower the flag and play taps. That's enough for us.
I believe that to be true as well. I just wonder more about the general public. Not those who answer the call who are the best of each generation.Quote:
Originally Posted by JimF4M1s