4T Pads & Brackets

Had the camera handy so took a couple of shots of the RBG2 marked Rose Brothers bracket earlier. It is one of the small batch I got from India, & it's only partially cleaned up, so sorry it looks a bit of a mess at the moment. I think (hope) the unusual marking will be legible enough to make out. This bracket possesses neither of the two commoner 'JG' or 'KD' markings. It also bears a four digit rifle serial number that looks to start with a '6' or an '8', which might be consistent with an early run of production rifle such as a 41 BSA.

I also took a picture of two sets of original dismounted body pads to show the difference between an earlier set with the slightly 'rounder shoulders' either side of the central spigot, compared to the more 'squared off' look of the later pads which also bear a small broad arrow (front pad) & would have come off a 1945 rifle. The earlier pads would have come off a 41 to 43 dated 4T.

Later: Sorry, final photo is too dark to make out much!

If you have any connections in a forensics laboratory they could probably puzzle out the serial number.

They can x-ray the numbers or something like that as the stamping alters the structure of the metal so it can be read even after its been scrubbed.
How do I know this my motor from my stolen Z-900 was found 3 years after the bike was stolen in a lake in Perth (Just the crank cases & pistons) the police traced it to me as the thieves had ground off the serial number on the case but x rays or what ever they do revealed them the insurance company rang me up and asked was the motor salvable, not likely after 3 years under water seriously!
I kept them for a while then threw them out a set of matched Z 900 cases now would be worth a good penny there is plenty of interest still in those old Kwaka's.

I take bits out to the local Air Service for xraying to check both numbers and fractures.[COLOR="black"]

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You'll laugh at this but try it first.............no cost as long as you have grease proof paper and a pencil handy. Once rubbed over, could bring more to view than the human eye!!:thup:

Thanks for all of the tips gents, but I suspect with somewhat less than state of the art forensics I'll eventually be able to make out the number, the bracket just needs further cleaning; it's still pretty cruddy. To be honest, knowing that it is four digits & starts with an '8' or a '6' is enough to say it was probably off a B 1941 rifle.

Hello Roger,

I have an early bracket marked with the RB G2 as well. No evidence of any serial number ever applied, and caps are numbered 30 & 31. Currently mounted on my 1931 trials T

Hi smle addict. That's interesting. Is the scope & bracket original to the rifle, do you know? When I've cleaned up my RBG2 bracket I rather fancied it might be appropriate on one of my Trials rifles - all the more so if yours is matching.

Unfortunately, the rifle and bracket are not a matching pair. The rifle was purchased minus a scope. I bought the mount a few years back from a seller who was convinced the mount was a repro. The seller was convinced a genuine mount should have sported a "KD," a "JG," or an "N92". I took a gamble and bought it because it had the right look and rough finish of an original. It also has enfield/broad arrow marked thumb screws (see pic). Forum members here confirmed it to be an early rose brothers mark/bracket.

The thumb screw marks revealed themselves after a generous cleaning. They were caked in grease and dirt, and a layer of black paint. It was a nice surprise to find them hiding under the built-up crud.

Thanks for getting back to me. It sounds appropriate though, for a Trials era rifle. As mentioned above, I think my RBG2 bracket bears the rifle serial of a B1941 rifle, so again early in the big scheme of things.

Very interesting photos those. Never seen anything like that before. Fits the pattern very nicely though.

RBG is definately Rose Brothers as this identical inspection stamp is found on the gun mounts in aircraft turrets, when we know they were made by Rose Brohers

Peter, I really don't know about this, but wondered, as have others, if the RBG may be an early form of identification used by Rose Brothers, before the 'JG' & 'KD' markings were adopted. The few few RBG brackets I've seen did not have either of the other two initials on them. Also, we see, during the course of the war, manufacturers changing their marking schemes from logos or initials to factory codes allotted to them. For example, Singer marked early No4 rear sights 'SM' & the last two digits of the date, but then went over later to their approved marking of 'N67'. There are lots more examples, like Herbert Morris, 'HM Co' morphing into N49, & Sykes Ltd 'SL' into 'N74'. 'JG' & 'KD' I admit, aren't a government approved factory code, but they have no obvious identifying characteristics that would have aided the Germans, & so may have been considered acceptable. Or maybe even there was no requirement for RB to manufacturer mark them, only for the finished product to be acceptance marked....??

Have you formed any opinion about at what point in production these 'RBG2' brackets fall? (IIRC I think I may once have had one marked RBG4, but can't be absolutely certain as it's long since gone - maybe produced on production line number 4???). The serial number on my own example suggests an early H&H conversion, probably a B1941 rifle.