Help with History and parts ID M1

Hello to everyone,
I am new to owning a M1 Carbine and was needed some help. I am using the book “U.S. M1 Carbines, Wartime Production as a reference. But still need some more help.
I have an M1 with a Rock-Ola Barrel and Rock-Ola receiver serial # starting 172**** (both are marked correctly). It has the following-
Stock- Type III with S-HB in sling well, so apparently made by Hillerich & Bradsby for Standard Products Co. The serial # range appears to be 2,090,00, so later then my rifle receiver. The crossed cannons Cartouche is in the correct spot and measures the correct size with calipers. The barrel band spring is parkerized. The recoil plate is a type III marked Standard Products and SW on right side.
Handguard appears to be incorrect as it is marked ‘OI’, is a type III, and is apparently in the 5,500,00 serial # range, way after my receiver.
Butt Plate- Marked S-S3, presumably Standard Products.
Reciever- Type II, Marked Rock-Ola, Rear sight is a type II and has stake marks and stamped on right side “I.R. Co. 7160060”.
Bolt- a Round bolt with right lug marked “W” (Winchester?) Firing pin is type III.
Trigger Housing- Type VI milled, but marked “SA”. So it makes that a Springfield Arms presumably?? Not sure, about this so please give input.
Slide- Type III with the number 7160091 and two other markings: a “Q” and also what looks like a circle punch mark “o”.
I have not taken the rest of the rifle apart to see markings on smaller items.
My questions are:
-What does all of this tell me about the rifles history? Probably just pieced together, considering trigger housing and handguard?
-What is the story with the trigger housing?
-What is the story with the Slide? Who made it and when?
Any and all info is appreciated, I am having a lot of fun with this gun!
Jeff

First Post, welcome to the carbine forum. Lots of guys here with years of experience that can help.

As you have read in your book that was not the original configuration. Your carbine has mixed parts. Either from a rebuild or someone switching them out. If you are thinking for restoring it back to original configuration, finding early Rock-Ola parts would be costly and take some time. Though you do have a few parts that would be worth trading.

If it looks good together and shoots well, I'd leave it as is. Still a piece of history.

I was just down your way Wednesday. Well almost, to Kelso WA. Has your snow melted yet?

Thanks for the reply! Our snow is melting as I type, cold rain.

I wonder if this was rebuilt at an arsenal or by an individual?

Probably both

What you have is a carbine that went through a full rebuild. The slide is not a type 3 if the numbers you listed are on it. It is a type 5 slide used only by Inland and Winchester. It could be a post war replacement too. The trigger housing is a replacement made by Springfield Armory most likely post war. I think your stock has been replaced after the carbine was rebuilt.

Thanks for the information. Yes, the slide is a type V. It was a typo on my part!

Be careful............. Bruce is a well known Fortune Telling Gypsie

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a1parrothead

The recoil plate is a type III marked Standard Products and SW on right side.

---

Is the Recoil plate marked on top with the full name?
And are you saying the plate is also marked on the side SW ?

Charlie-Painter777

---------- Post added at 11:52 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:45 AM ----------

Type Hammer and marking on the side?
Safety: push or Rotary?
Magazine catch/release: Tab marked? Letters on front teeth?
Bayonet Band ?
Front sight marked?

Stock have any Inspector or Armory/Depot markings? Is there a serial number stamped in to the stock? Stamped P or (P's) on front of pistol grip?

Just cause we want to know !!
Pictures are nice...... and don't mean your kids.

Charlie-Painter777

Welcome to the forum! One thing to consider is that your carbine is an "as issued military arm," not as it left the factory in 1942, but rather at a later date, when it was arsenal rebuilt and re-issued to the troops. Mixmasters are still n original piece of history. If you "restore" it, it is really no longer original issue, but rather something you assemble 75 years later!.

-Recoil plate says " Standard Products" on the top and is stamped "SW" on right side.
-Front sight stamped with a sideways "P" on top of sight.
-Bayonet band marked "JM" on right side.
-Safety is a rotary type.
-Hammer- have not looked that deeply yet
-Magazine release is marked with an "M" .
Stock has no marks around pistol grip. Just "S-HB" in slingwell and crossed cannons on right side.

Thanks, Jeff

Some pictures, more to follow.

More Pictures....

The P front sight is a WWII replacement part. For any maker, not made for a particular maker. IIRC they were made by Prestole Div. Detroit Harvester Co.

The metal on your carbine has been reparked, compare the finish to your recoil plate.
Magcatch has the little support arm up front to help support the weight of a 30rd mag.
Trigger housing has the mods to hold the needed parts for a semi/full auto m2 kit.
Stock looks nice. Very possible you have a post WWII rebuilt carbine with all the upgrades....... then someone did the fresh metal repark and put on that nice stock.
Shot it yet?
Also Welcome to the forum. Where they're no dumb questions......... Well maybe some, but we know USGI Bobs' memory isn't getting any younger :D

Thx for sharing it on a cold Saturday :cheers:

CH-P777

That is a VERY nice carbine. I would not do a thing to it except make sure the recoil spring is between 10 1/8" and 10 1/4". They are 10 1/4" new, and when they are degraded to 10" or less, they don't function as well. That is "as issued" for Korean War, or early Vietnam.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Magcatch has the little support arm up front to help support the weight of a 30rd mag.

---

OK, now tell him why the magcatch is missing the Underlined M. I can't remember! :wave: - Bob

Thank you all! I have shot it and love it!

So tell me more about mag catch....
Jeff

That gun looks a lot like a "White Bag" without the bag. Nice carbine, should be a real good shooter.

Best Regards.....Frank

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frankderrico

That gun looks a lot like a "White Bag" without the bag. Nice carbine, should be a real good shooter.

Best Regards.....Frank

---

I agree. The dark finish on it looks like my 6 digit Inland. It was a white bag, though the guy I got it from replaced the stock. I had an I cut high wood with the Anniston rebuild cartouche.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by imarangemaster

The dark finish on it looks like my 6 digit Inland.

---

Are you serious about the 'Dark Color' ? :dunno:
Other than any Blued parts, only the Stock metal shows original finish.

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....8&d=1514664885

https://www.milsurps.com/attachment....9&d=1514664960

A nice looking M1 Carbine.... especially the stock. But it's clear that it's been recently refinished/reparked and I don't mean during the post WWII rebuilding programs. Or that deep olive Rock Ola color would be expected. Enjoy it for what it is.

USGI Bob,
One for you:
Who made a H.T. Rotary safety ? :rolleyes:

CH-P777

Oops, the pics I looked at thumbnails weren't that BRIGHT grey!LOL I need to pay attention.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a1parrothead

So tell me more about mag catch....
Jeff

---

I was just trying to poke some fun at Charlie (painter777). So far he hasn't taken the bait! Honestly, I thought all of the 30rd Mag Catches were marked with an underlined M. Maybe it's there faintly and I just can't see it? I really like your new carbine, too. I have a Rockola slide I could offer to trade you, but I would leave it just as it is. :thup: - Bob

Edit: I just found information about a "revision 5" mag catch (for 30 rd mag) that omitted the M completely. So far haven't found anything about one that has just the M with no underline.

Attachment 89672

Pull your slide off and look inside the bottom of the box for marking. I think it will probably be PI for Inland. I agree with the others as well as your metal parts color match I wouldn't change any parts they would never match that well.

Great information, and thanks everyone. I am leaving it it as is. Its defiantly been re-parkerized, as far as the stock goes it really looks nothing like the flash in the pictures makes it seem. I passed up many M1's that had been re-finished with a high gloss lacquer finish. The pics make this appear that way, however it is very misleading.

No explanation for the mag catch. I cannot see any place where the M was ever underlined.

I am still curious about the Q on the slide.

I have looked up this question on many forums and scoured the internet, but I am still looking for a few reliable magazines. Many forum recommended magazines are out of stock.

Jeff

Hey Bob, The magazine catch he has is a type 3 with just the m on it meaning the modified type to fit and slide easier in it's slot as it's thinner.

The Q on the slide could be anything from an inspection mark to someone at a plant just messing around.

Now Charlie, I gaze into your future and I see....Nothing. Nothing but WHITE!!!! Endless hours of SNOW!!!!! Enjoy it every flake of it. Oh Yeah.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

Now Charlie, I gaze into your future and I see....Nothing. Nothing but WHITE!!!! Endless hours of SNOW!!!!! Enjoy it every flake of it. Oh Yeah.

---

That: From Ole Carnac the Magnificent.

I'd guess no need to tell you what's next.... because you already know, but pay backs are hell !!

Happy New Year
CH-P777

That's OK Charlie I could see the future and that is why I stole your shovel last night. So now your trapped till the spring thaw. Now maybe I will have a chance to get a few more carbines without you being able to vacuum them all up. Have a great New Year.:cheers:

First apologies to a1parrothead,
There are times Bruce gets out of hand, as his admission of stealing my Wife's snow shovel proves.
She was just getting good with it too!

As far as better odds at grabbing carbines..... We need to team up and get Marcus Deported.
I seen a picture of JimF's safe !! With your 'Special Skills' you should be able to crack that baby open.

Cheers All.... Be Safe... and remember Depends are not re-usable :confused:

To 2018 :beerchug:
Charlie-Painter777

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by painter777

Who made a H.T. Rotary safety ?

---

I thought I had read the answer to that about a week ago, but have spent hours the past couple days looking through notes on my computer, reading in War Baby III, searching this and other forums, etc. - and I still can't find the answer. "Payback" from you guys can be brutal! :surrender: Bruce, the OP's mag catch is a bit strange - go back and check his photo's. Maybe we can get our jokester "Buddy" to explain it for us! :dancingbanana: - Bob

Bob, I see you are in the Columbia River Gorge. I am in Hermiston. What part are in?

Jeff

Bob, I wonder if its just the glare of the flash on the face of the catch that makes it look different.

Maybe I should return his wife's shovel. Otherwise he will be on line even more then he is now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

Maybe I should return his wife's shovel. Otherwise he will be on line even more then he is now.

---

Better keep it Bruce, 3" to 5" coming your way. And I didn't know NC received that much snow. :clap:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

The magazine catch he has is a type 3

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by USGI

the OP's mag catch is a bit strange - go back and check his photo's.

---

That magcatch has the extended support arm/tang for a 30 rd magazine.
Could it be a CAST one that Springfield was working on in the early 50's ?

That should keep you ole timers guessing for a while.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a1parrothead

Bob, I see you are in the Columbia River Gorge. I am in Hermiston. What part are you in?

Jeff

---

I'm about 2 hrs west of you, and (very fortunately) out in the country a bit. :thup: - Bob

If that is the extra magazine catch for the 30 round magazines it's sure doesn't look right in the photo. If it is a type 4 catch then the photo is distorting it making it appear wider?

Here's the same pictures blown up a little bit. :dunno: - Bob

Attachment 89779Attachment 89778Attachment 89777

Light from a flash or window reflecting on a smooth surface. The best pictures are when someone uses a light box.

O.K. everyone,

A few more pics of the safety.

Also, If I post a few pictures of an M1 Garand, would you all give me an approximation of value and maybe some details? looking at buying it, but WAY out of my wheelhouse!

Jeff

Any info, or rough value would be appreciated.

Jeff

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by a1parrothead

If I post a few pictures of an M1 Garand,

---

You should post those on the M1 Garand/M14/M1A Rifles forum, you'll get better results there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

If that is the extra magazine catch for the 30 round magazines it's sure doesn't look right in the photo.

---

Snow blind Bruce ? Or is North Carolina now a For personal pleasure pot state ?


Magcatch: Looks like it was stamped with the M much harder on the top and very lightly on the bottom..... maybe the reason it isn't showing an underline.

Parrothead, believe us when we say you'll run across many mysteries when it comes to carbines and part markings.

CH-P777

Well we got about 4 to 5 inches Charlie which is about 6 inches too much. BUT I am putting your snow shovel to good use. Going to be cold here till Monday when it will be well over 32 degrees and raining so by Tuesday it will be all gone melted away. I will send it back then so you can put it to good use like keeping the wife busy.

Ok Dave...... I mean Bruce ..... :cool:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...01/yk6z2-1.jpg