M1 Garand for a Sauer CE K98

Hello everyone again,


I know this is probably like the third trade evaluation I've made with the Garand. I've not had much luck with these deals Lol. First off, I'll say that my knowledge on K98s are limited so this post will also serve as a learning lesson.

I have someone offering me a 1943 Sauer CE code K98 all matching but the bolt. It is in fine shape and seems to be a very nice rifle. I will be giving him my HRA M1 Garand plus about $150 for it. Is this a fair deal? Pictures are posted below.

M1 Garand: (Copied from another post.)

From what I have gathered it is post-Korean War HRA receiver. It has essentially all other Springfield parts. The op-rod is uncut, the stock has handling marks but is otherwise good. The bore appears to be quite nice. The barrel was evidently replaced with a 1963 Springfield. I am not sure if this means that it was arsenal refurbished in 1963 or if it is just a mix-match. I basically paid $1000 cash for it.

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K98:

From what he has told me this K98 is a 1943 Sauer CE. It is all matching except for the bolt. It has no import marks, no capture marks, etc. Metal and stock finish appears to be great, bore seems to be great. There is like one knick in the stock. Waffenamps still intact. Comes with original sling and a decent bit of ammo.

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Thanks for the help, as always if you need any more pics or info just let me know.

Trade even up if you would rather have the Mauser. No way I'd pay boot for a bolt mismatch.

Nice looking K98 but I wouldn't trade an M1 for it...how much ammo are you talking about? What you actually paid for the M1 is inconsequential now. It's worth what it's worth. If you're that eager to rid yourself of the M1 then sell it and apply the cash by itself to a deal...

Well essentially Im not paying him anything. Im giving him a Finnish Marked Carcano and he is giving me back about $150 worth of various ammo and AR parts. That leaves about $150 left on trade value of the carcano. But to be honest, Ive been trying to rid myself of that thing for months. Also he is driving pretty far to meet me. I had thought even a bolt mismatch is still worth well over 1000, at least from what Ive seen on Gunbroker. So you guys dont think it is worth that much?

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

Well essentially Im not paying him anything. Im giving him a Finnish Marked Carcano and he is giving me back about $150 worth of various ammo and AR parts. That leaves about $150 left on trade value of the carcano.

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I've missed something, none of this matches the first post...

I didn't want to try to explain the whole carcano thing I figured it was easier to just say Im giving him 150 cash. Sorry for the confusion

First off don't go by what you see on Gun Broker or any auction site. They really are not very accurate. Most of what is listed does not sell for the inflated prices being asked. A real true bring back with a matching bolt would sell for the asking price but a miss matched bolt, then no it is not worth the $1000.

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Originally Posted by Bruce McAskill

First off don't go by what you see on Gun Broker or any auction site. They really are not very accurate. Most of what is listed does not sell for the inflated prices being asked.

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Just an FYI, if you have an account you can search completed listings on gunbroker through their advanced search. You can then omit listings with a reserve. Finally, sort by number of bids.
With this series of steps you can then see exactly what something is selling for.
I use this a lot for researching things. Guns, ammo, parts.

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

I didn't want to try to explain the whole carcano thing

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But, post one shows you trading an M1 rifle, then after we start that you shift to a Carcano... Yes, I'd trade a Carcano for a K98.

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

But, post one shows you trading an M1 rifle, then after we start that you shift to a Carcano... Yes, I'd trade a Carcano for a K98.

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Haha, no it is added to the deal with the Garand. Sorry for the confusion

Your grand is worth about 800 an up. Rack grades are starting at 700.00. Carcano is worth about 150 up. K98 with mismatch bolt about 350.00 up. These are the average prices I see. These rifles are what I would call shooter grade not collector. Meaning nice looking correct military an safe. Not all matching numbers. Trade a k98 for carcano yes. not an M1..Just my honest opinion

If I had to put a number on the Mauser, and assuming the stock matches, I'd call it a $800.00 rifle. Most Russian Capture Mausers are bringing $500.00 now. A Garand in service grade type condition is a solid $800.00 to $900.00 rifle in my opinion. Caracano's are easy to find for $150.00 every day, so that one is pretty even up.

The days of $300.00 K98k Mausers are fleeting, and honestly long gone. I'd buy every bolt mismatch K98k Mauser that isn't a Russian Capture for $350.00 every day all day long.

If you can get someone to trade a K98k for a Caracano even up all I can say is good job. Anyone who knows anything about collectible rifles is never going to do a trade like that, EVER!

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Originally Posted by RazorBurn

If I had to put a number on the Mauser, and assuming the stock matches, I'd call it a $800.00 rifle. Most Russian Capture Mausers are bringing $500.00 now. A Garand in service grade type condition is a solid $800.00 to $900.00 rifle in my opinion. Caracano's are easy to find for $150.00 every day, so that one is pretty even up.

The days of $300.00 K98k Mausers are fleeting, and honestly long gone. I'd buy every bolt mismatch K98k Mauser that isn't a Russian Capture for $350.00 every day all day long.

If you can get someone to trade a K98k for a Caracano even up all I can say is good job. Anyone who knows anything about collectible rifles is never going to do a trade like that, EVER!

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Not sure where that 350 dollar K98 mismatch number comes from. Not in this decade, I know that much. I bought an RC and sold it recently for 600, Ive seen nicer RCs sell for 800 even.

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

Not sure where that 350 dollar K98 mismatch number comes from. Not in this decade, I know that much. I bought an RC and sold it recently for 600, Ive seen nicer RCs sell for 800 even.

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I take it you missed the post above mine that I was replying to. Below is what the person above me posted.

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Originally Posted by mmppres

...K98 with mismatch bolt about 350.00 up. These are the average prices I see. Trade a k98 for carcano yes. not an M1..Just my honest opinion

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No I had seen your post, I was sort of replying to both of you. I've seen forum posts from 2010 on here saying that even a mismatch bolt K98, non import, was still worth close to $1000. In 2010... years later, and we all know that Milsurps have exploded in value. Russian Captures have been selling for 700-800 regularly. And while Gunbroker/Armlists is a bit off in terms of the auction setting; they are, for all intensive purposes, the stock market for firearms. We have no other benchmark than those, and it seems like most of the responses this thread have received are hinged upon opinion/speculation. People's opinions don't always correlate with the market. When there are people willing to pay these prices, the firearms are worth that price. But that's just IMHO ;). Honestly I'm pretty split here, I think the issue is I went into this thinking already it would be a good deal. I mean, I just don't see K98s locally anymore. Let alone non-import, non-capture, and at least mostly matching. I've actually NEVER seen any kind of partly matching K98s locally in recent years. I see Garands all the time.

---------- Post added at 10:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:58 PM ----------

Also, I want to clarify one last time. I should have been more clear in the beginning, but I digress: I am giving him a Carcano and the M1 Garand. He is giving me the K98, sling, ammo, some AR parts, and other misc. stuff. He has sent pictures of the bolt and other disassembled parts. Apparently the bolt partly matches itself, and some of the numbers on the bolt matches the floor plate (Which is also non matching evidently...) Overall, everything looks quite nice but the bolt is the only thing that leaves myself some concern. However, from what I have seen, if his K98 had all matching parts it would be worth easily up to $1500 to $2000. Does a non matching bolt and floor plate really take that much away from it? (Happy New Year btw!)
I mean, my Garand isn't matching. Matter of fact, not a single part matches.

---------- Post added at 10:13 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:04 PM ----------

Also the barrel code is G2434. Is that supposed to match the rest of the rifle?

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

the K98, sling, ammo, some AR parts, and other misc. stuff.

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All of that matters...like, exactly how much 8mm is involved and what is it? That crap is expensive, even the brass is expensive.

Oh it's only 60 rounds, plus 4 stripper clips. A few AR hex mags.

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

only 60 rounds

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That's not much, AR mags can be had. If you're happy though...

Personally I think you are getting the short end of the stick by a long shot. A mismatched bolt equals a mismatched rifle. $600-$800 is about right for the K98. M38 Carcanos in decent shape are at $200-$300 now, hard to believe but true. Can still get them for less but getting hard. Garands are $800-$1000 in shooter grade. Privi makes 8mm ammo for about $20 a box. Everything depends on condition.

Looking to the future is where you need to make the big decision. K98's are rising and likely to continue as they aren't making any more and the sources seem to have dried up. Garands seem to have stagnated and there are thousands of them sitting in Korea waiting to be shipped back to the CMP which could happen at any time and they are making new ones or similar ones with the M14's coming out of Springfield. Will price crash? Probably not but I expect they will not rise and might decrease somewhat. Carcanos probably won't do much of anything in either direction. But that's the future, not today. I think there are better deals out there to be made now.

I would pass what's the sense in trading a nice M1 for a mismatched K98? The gun will never be right as far in a collector standpoint. Sorry to the guys that collect these mismatched guns but that's what they are.

Appreciate the responses. I've opted to give him 800 Cash and hold on to the Garand. I am a pretty avid collector and I personally still see a desirability in mismatched K98s. (Especially if it is just the bolt) I still believe that if this K98 were completely matching it would sell for easily $1500-2000. I couldn't see how a mismatched bolt could justify making it worth half but here we are. Of the several collectors I have befriended locally, most agree with my decision to get it. I am confident that the K98 will be worth significantly more then the Garand in possibly even a year. In my opinion, by keeping the Garand, I am both allowing myself to find better deals for the Garand currently, and investing in the future by purchasing the K98, even at what could see full price now. Plus I think they are a good pair.

Personally I would place more collectability on the mauser than the garand. What do I know I sold a completely matching with excellent bore K98/40 at a gun show that I bought on line so covered in filth that you couldn't tell was matching or even servicable till I cleaned it. I have had a terminal case of remorse ever since.

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

I still believe that if this K98 were completely matching it would sell for easily $1500-2000. I couldn't see how a mismatched bolt could justify making it worth half but here we are.

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The reason for the huge price difference is simple, completely matching K98's are all tied up in someone's collection and are quite rare on the open market. It takes that kind of money to get the collectors to part with them. Mismatched rifles on the other hand are not as sought after, nor as rare on the open market. In gun collecting, you can't just say something makes no sense because it's just one part, or a bolt, it is what it is. People pay premium for the best, they don't pay the premium if it isn't the best.

$800 seems fair but still a bit high in my opinion but you're the one making the deal and if you're happy with it, go for it. If it isn't worth quite that much today it will be very soon.

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Originally Posted by neoisprettycool

I am a pretty avid collector and I personally still see a desirability in mismatched K98s. (Especially if it is just the bolt)

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I think there can be a distinction here, and this can apply to other military rifles. If the gun is numbers matching, with a mismatched bolt, but the bolt itself is matching (sear, safety, bolt handle, firing pin, etc), then it is possible the gun was captured (and not arsenaled).

I was friends with a man who served in WWII. He said that towards the end of the war, US troops would surround (superior numbers of) German troops, and they'd just surrender. They had no will to even fight. His CO said, after a rather large group of German troops surrendered (and, I am paraphrasing):

If any of you f***ers want to sleep tonight, you'll get these Krauts to put they're guns in one pile, and leave the bolts with us.

There would be piles of k98s with no bolts. Some would be taken, but no one spent time sorting bolts to make a matching rifle. There is no question an all matching gun is more desirable and valuable, but I do see value in guns with mismatched bolts (that themselves are matching), just for this reason.