New to me Lee Enfield MK4 no1* (Savage lend/lease). Pics and a few questions

Hey all! New memeber but not new to milsurp rifles at all (just lee enfields).

I picked this up for $450 last week. It's a savage MK4 no1*. All matching (reciever, magazine, and assuming barrel) except for the bolt. Overall the rifle is is pretty nice shape. Barrel is correct for Savage wartime production (2 groove), thus why I'm thinking its original, but I couldn't find any markings on it when I took the handguards off. As you can see from the pics, barrel is mint!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...R0YuWOel-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...jmZUa2pl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...j8iQOHZl-1.jpg

Stock is marked FTR, but none of the metal parts have it stamped (still a possible factory refurb?).

Now, the problems I found during disassembly and cleaning:

Extractor spring was missing. Had a spare so no big deal. Installed it and tested ejection with rounds. Ejects fine. Problem solved

Lower portion of stockis missing the metal (see below)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...vUY7co5l-1.jpg

Will this affect anything? Band still secures tight but have to clamp it all the way back instead of in the metal grove

Front sight guard is loose. Able to wobbble it back and forth a little, but not forward or backwards. Screw is there and tightened all the way. I'm thinking this is no big deal, am I correct?

Those are the only issues I've found. Bolt looks in nice and secure, as well. Sony guess is this rifle went through refurb and a few corners were cut (just the lower handguard metal on the stock really), but it shouldn't be an issue (luckily I noticed extractor spring). So how'd I do for $450??? Can't wait to shoot it!!!

---------- Post added at 08:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:55 PM ----------

Not thread related, but my other milsurp rifles (enfield in this pic is a POF)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...H9sKHlQl-1.jpg

I remember the first time I saw a No4 with twin groove rifling: I was certain it was a fake. I know better now haha.

About the metal piece on the front hand guard, I suppose as long as it is still clamping the barrel as intended it wouldn't cause issues. The front sight protectors could cause issues if they buzz around and contact the front sights while shooting, maybe giving a similar issue to what happens when the top hand guard slips forward and contacts the sight.

I may be completely wrong. Its a nice looking rifle. I love the dark stock.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nijalninja

I remember the first time I saw a No4 with twin groove rifling: I was certain it was a fake. I know better now haha.

About the metal piece on the front hand guard, I suppose as long as it is still clamping the barrel as intended it wouldn't cause issues. The front sight protectors could cause issues if they buzz around and contact the front sights while shooting, maybe giving a similar issue to what happens when the top hand guard slips forward and contacts the sight.

I may be completely wrong. Its a nice looking rifle. I love the dark stock.

---

So two grove rifling is more rare??

The sight guard doesn't contact the front sight post at all (or the protruding parts used to adjust it). It wobbles; but there is no way it can come off since the scew used to secure it goes right through the sight block. I guess it won't be an issue.

The main reason I bought it is because it's a wartime (1943) and it's stamped US property (which I knew meant lend/lease due to it being a British pattern rifle made during the war). I didn't know anything else unitl I researched it a bit more after putting a deposit down. The store where I got it from sells milsurps super cheap (picked up my pictured K98, Romanian contract VZ24 and 1938 Tula 91/30 from them a few months at $250 a piece, all in very good to excellent condition). I'll post some more pics of the Enfieldin a few minutes.

More pics. Still need to do a better job removing cosmoline

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...pUSnq1hl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Adzgzshl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wuWaWKRl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...wfnoEuwl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...yZmBQNVl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...3MENlC1l-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...ZOb2bqXl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...nr4P6WAl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...Rmed7cbl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...w3dGMvSl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...SVvN3fWl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...8EEUHGJl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...qDBrtDZl-1.jpg

Not sure if twin rifling is any rare or anything, but it seemed odd when I first heard about it.

Idk if it would apply to all rifles in every part of the barrel, but there is a thing called "buzzing" which is where something metallic and somewhat loose is in contact with the barrel when it fires; the vibrations down the barrel cause the 'buzz' on the other metallic thing, and as far as I know this can mess with the harmonics of a standard issue enfield what with its up pressures to tune the harmonics. It may or may not apply to the sight protector, but I would wait for someone more experienced to have a say.

If there is nothing else wrong with it you might as well go take some shots and see if it is alright or all over the place. If it shoots wild then you start fiddling.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by nijalninja

Not sure if twin rifling is any rare or anything, but it seemed odd when I first heard about it.

Idk if it would apply to all rifles in every part of the barrel, but there is a thing called "buzzing" which is where something metallic and somewhat loose is in contact with the barrel when it fires; the vibrations down the barrel cause the 'buzz' on the other metallic thing, and as far as I know this can mess with the harmonics of a standard issue enfield what with its up pressures to tune the harmonics. It may or may not apply to the sight protector, but I would wait for someone more experienced to have a say.

If there is nothing else wrong with it you might as well go take some shots and see if it is alright or all over the place. If it shoots wild then you start fiddling.

---

I plan on shooting it maybe Wednesday. My hopes arn't high though, as the only .303 I have stocked it PPU boat tailed rounds, which I've read don't do well at all in 2 grove rifled barrels :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

I plan on shooting it maybe Wednesday. My hopes arn't high though, as the only .303 I have stocked it PPU boat tailed rounds, which I've read don't do well at all in 2 grove rifled barrels :(

---

My Savage No.4 Mk1* has 2 groove rifling and it worried me for a while as I only had a few rounds of MK7 to shoot and could not find any flat based ammo or bullets to reload. I need not have worried as it turned out that with PPU boat tail reloads it is my second most accurate rifle, after my Enfield Envoy, out to 600 yards. I believe it all to do with the condition of bore in particular close to the chamber where gasses can escape round the tail of the bullet (boat tail) and destabilise it.

Hi
Picture 3
Yout frontsight protector is pointing the wrong way
Turn 180 degree and i think your problem is fixt

Jsne

What's been done to the rear sight? Looks like heat has been applied, has the rear sight been welded? That's a Mk 3 so shouldn't it have a pressed steel sight loop? Looks like something different. I thought Savage rifles were stocked in Beech or Birch? The butt looks from the small bit I can see to be different from the forend. I wonder if this one was restored? The loose upper handguard and front band would never pass FTR...never...finish on the sight protector doesn't match the rest either, and as pointed out is reversed. Still, at least you have one, some of us don't. Let us know how it shoots...

If you want to pm me I'll send you a 'nose cap' that you have missing. Can't bear to see a nice rifle improperly dressed like that. I'll enclose the two transverse pins that hold it correctly in position too. Can't guarantee a Savage made example but I'll see what I can do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanforth

My Savage No.4 Mk1* has 2 groove rifling and it worried me for a while as I only had a few rounds of MK7 to shoot and could not find any flat based ammo or bullets to reload. I need not have worried as it turned out that with PPU boat tail reloads it is my second most accurate rifle, after my Enfield Envoy, out to 600 yards. I believe it all to do with the condition of bore in particular close to the chamber where gasses can escape round the tail of the bullet (boat tail) and destabilise it.

---

good to know, thanks!!!!!

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roger Payne

If you want to pm me I'll send you a 'nose cap' that you have missing. Can't bear to see a nice rifle improperly dressed like that. I'll enclose the two transverse pins that hold it correctly in position too. Can't guarantee a Savage made example but I'll see what I can do.

---

PM sent

---------- Post added at 07:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

What's been done to the rear sight? Looks like heat has been applied, has the rear sight been welded? That's a Mk 3 so shouldn't it have a pressed steel sight loop? Looks like something different. I thought Savage rifles were stocked in Beech or Birch? The butt looks from the small bit I can see to be different from the forend. I wonder if this one was restored? The loose upper handguard and front band would never pass FTR...never...finish on the sight protector doesn't match the rest either, and as pointed out is reversed. Still, at least you have one, some of us don't. Let us know how it shoots...

---

Rear sight is not welded. As for it not being restored I don't know the history of the rifle (don't know of the markings on the tip of the barrel are import markings or not, can't read it).

---------- Post added at 07:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:11 AM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsne

Hi
Picture 3
Yout frontsight protector is pointing the wrong way
Turn 180 degree and i think your problem is fixt

Jsne

---

Yep, solved the problem, thanks! Whoever assembled the rifle when being repaired must have been drunk (backwards front sight, missing extractor spring)

I decided to head to the range to test it out. I'm bored and can't wait lol. I'll post pics and results

Well, just got done shooting. Here is the first 5 rounds fired. All targets are at 50 yards

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...2JvSWW7l-1.jpg

Goes without saying that the grouping sucks and the sights are way off. On the bright side no keyholing so thats good!! I only used the battlefield peep hole. After getting everything sighted in, I was blown away

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...gtRfoDtl-1.jpg

I then aimed at a 6 o'clock hold over the bullseye instead of dead center and it came down a bit

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...QRN1HxTl-1.jpg

17/20 shots (once sighted in) in the 10 ring or bullseye. Accuracy on this rifle is exceptional. Considering this is my first time shooting it (2nd time ever shooting a lee enfield) I am EXTREMELY happy!! Zero malfunctions of any kind of the 40 rounds fired in total

Brought my 1903A3 out for the 2nd time and had similar results

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...HUOO5mnl-1.jpg

Good day at the range with the old war horses

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...yfbIksNl-1.jpg

That's another myth laid to rest... about 2 groove rifling.
Enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stanforth

That's another myth laid to rest... about 2 groove rifling.
Enjoy it.

---

Definitely laid to rest (at least in the case of my rifle).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

don't know of the markings on the tip of the barrel are import markings or not, can't read it).

---

Yes, those are import...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

Yes, those are import...

---

Couldn't make it out who imported it. It's not Century I can tell that much

The marks on the barrel look like British commercial proofs to me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

The marks on the barrel look like British commercial proofs to me.

---

Where did Savage mark their barrels (if you know)? Bottom of the barrel (face stock) or top (under handgaurd). Either way, I don't care as I'm very happy with its accuracy lol

Look for a tiny flaming bomb proof on the right hand bayonet lug. Savage barrels are pretty much devoid of markings other than some single letter ,(inspector?), marks on the top or sides of the Knox.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Look for a tiny flaming bomb proof on the right hand bayonet lug. Savage barrels are pretty much devoid of markings other than some single letter ,(inspector?), marks on the top or sides of the Knox.

---

Will take a look later tonight! Thank you!!

There was a single letter/ some sort of proof mark on the top of the barrel in the middle near where the rear of the rear handguard goes.

Would this be it??? Paint is in the way but something it there.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../dQnmVZD-1.jpg

Don't notice that indent on other enfields

---------- Post added at 08:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

Would this be it??? Paint is in the way but something it there.

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../dQnmVZD-1.jpg

Don't notice that indent on other enfields

---

Did some searching, it's in the exact spot as other Savage Enfields. So I'm saying savage barrel confirmed. Might try to get some of the paint off there

Yep, that's it.

Well another member here is sending my a lower barrel band (thanks!!), so I'll post some more pics once that's installed. And since I'm installing a new part, I guess that means I'll have to accuracy test it again lol.

Well another member sent me a lower barrel band and I installed it tonight. Rifle is now not missing anything and is complete. Special thanks to Roger for sending the piece out to me, it's very much appreciated. Can't wait to get her out to the range again!!!!

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...LVYdTHCl-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...JOqIFEIl-1.jpg

Another proof mark is also visible due to it not being obstructed by the clamp in order to hold it in place :)

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...anOPtq8l-1.jpg

the 2 groove rifling was a expediting effort to reduce the amount of time it to to rifle a barrel it is no big deal is not rare and they shoot just as good as the 5 groovers the rare one is the 6 groove barrel.
Seems to sport an early style cocking piece proof that armourers were not worried about collectibles 70+ years down the track get it up to par and back out to do the business.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

the 2 groove rifling was a expediting effort to reduce the amount of time it to to rifle a barrel it is no big deal is not rare and they shoot just as good as the 5 groovers the rare one is the 6 groove barrel.
Seems to sport an early style cocking piece proof that armourers were not worried about collectibles 70+ years down the track get it up to par and back out to do the business.

---

That's what someone else said: cocking piece is off a WW1 era rifle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

cocking piece is off a WW1 era rifle

---

No...the cocking piece is from the early Mk1 type which was later changed. The one you refer to is the #1Mk3 which was a different rifle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by browningautorifle

No...the cocking piece is from the early Mk1 type which was later changed. The one you refer to is the #1Mk3 which was a different rifle.

---

Oh ok, thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

Seems to sport an early style cocking piece

---

Too, that's not the original bolt so someone could have cobbled this together at any time...just a bolt that was obtained...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

Oh ok, thanks!

---

Oh no, don't thank him. Now you know that the No1 MkIII exists, you need to get one.....and that's how it starts:madsmile:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by harry mac

Oh no, don't thank him. Now you know that the No1 MkIII exists, you need to get one.....and that's how it starts:madsmile:

---

I've surrendered to my firearm addiction. There is no stopping it lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by steveTA1983

cocking piece is off a WW1 era rifle

---

No I did not! that cocking piece appears to be off an early No.4 rifle, as I have tried to fit a MkIII cocking piece as a trial to one of my No.4's and it does not work it won't screw onto the end of the No.4's F/P

Yep, the SMLE threads are the oddball Enfield form, whereas, IIRC, the No4 striker thread is 1/4" BSF (don't quote me I'm speaking from dodgy memory - they're different, anyway).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CINDERS

No I did not! that cocking piece appears to be off an early No.4 rifle, as I have tried to fit a MkIII cocking piece as a trial to one of my No.4's and it does not work it won't screw onto the end of the No.4's F/P

---

I wasn't quoting you lol, someone else on another forum mentioned that

You can fit an SMLE firing pin and cocking piece to a No.4 bolt with no problem. The threads are different so it must be done as an assembly.