I am looking for information on different variants of assault weapons built in WWII for the SAS only. I appreciate any help on the subject thank you.:)
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I am looking for information on different variants of assault weapons built in WWII for the SAS only. I appreciate any help on the subject thank you.:)
All right, I'll stick my neck out.... what special weapons for the SAS? Vietnam yes, but WW2 not so sure.
SAS was not in vietnam 64-74 perhaps you are referring to the SASR.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxwell Smart
now for SAS WW2 you have the DeLisle carbine, silenced sten and welrod
Assault weapons? SAS WWII?
Demolition packs, Bangalore torpedo, fuses, timers, etc. Bren, Vickers K, captured MG, etc.
Is this what you have in mind? Your request is a bit vague.
apart from the obvious lack of a true "assault rifle" on the Allied side;
I don't think anything was built "just" for the SAS.
My understanding of the WW2 "special forces" the SAS were really "just" another "commando" unit. They really didn't become "the" special forces "unit" until the 50's.
The Welgun was apparently a favorite of SBS and (other?) waterborne commandos.
There were no “assault rifles” then as stated and of course many firearms enthusiasts argue that there is still no such thing, it being an anti-firearm media invented term.
The SAS did not have unique “special to them” firearms. They did have a locally made type of bomb (Lewes Bomb?) designed by one of their members in North Africa for destroying German and Italian aircraft parked on airfields. They made them up locally. A mix of explosive and incendiary material as so recall.
The Welgun was an experimental British sub-machine gun and was not used operationally as far as I know. I have handled the one in the Canadian War Museum’s firearms vault.
The Welrod was a silenced handgun that was made available to SOE and other special units. CWM has one of those on its vault as well.
I guess i am referring more a SAS team using a No4 MK1 / SMLE bolt action rifles did they use them as issued or say have them modified to suite the conditions they had to operate in? for example would they have hauled a No4 T in the box with all the gear or they were allowed to modify them to keep things light? i know that on the jeeps in Africa they mounted machine guns differently to anyone else for more fire power for example but i am after information on the hand held rifles??Quote:
Originally Posted by Daan Kemp
Did the SAS carry out any parachute raids and would they have used the standard issue small arms or modified?
Everyone thanks so far for your comments great information, is there somewhere we can look at photos
Those jeeps used by Stilings LRDP SAS chaps looked pretty purpose built see pic also note the Sykes Fairbairn knife much favoured by the SAS on the Rt hip of the Lieutenant closest to camera, another a pic of Stirling with the jeeps.
I would classify those jeeps as an assault weapon purpose built for the task.
I would agree about those jeeps and the Sykes knife. that is my point about asking the milsurp community about small arms if any that where modified and used by the SAS.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
Mudgee, To get a better idea You really need to read up on the History of the SAS, one of there first Jumps was a near disaster......... there is always a lot of confusion between them and LRDG too.
The idea of the vehicles were a smaller version of what the LRDG used obvious the jeep was ideal small and simple, strip off everything you don't need and replace it with things you do.
The story of how Stirling fist got the idea off the ground is quite a feat in the first place.
IIRC Commandos were the first to use the De Lisle and SOE, I doubt very much the SAS used the De Lisle or if they did it would of had little use, Cinders mentions the Fairbairn which would of been easier than lumping round a De Lisle.
Stirling got Churchills signature and used it to make up his own "acquire whatever I need" order ... A great example of a great man's out if the box thinking...
Many 'things' were modified in wartime to suit, with little documentation.
It is doubtful they would modify a No 1/4 rifle as there is very little to modify. Shortening saves very little in weight and length. The British were actually quite strict on all such funny stuff, because logistical support is the biggest problem.
Their equipment was purpose built/developed for long distance movement, high intensity operations, long distance return. Raiding in the desert would be a good description, actually the transport would be the most purpose built of all. Not intended or equipped for pitched battles.
The SAS were mainly vehicle based and dependent on high firepower, thus machine guns and SMG. Little use for rifles although they would have had some.
Sniper equipment? Ever done a couple days cross country in a wartime Jeep? Not having it securely protected against vibration and shaking would have made it useless. I doubt very much if they would have sniped as it wasn't their goal. After sniping they would have had to run as retribution would have been immediate.
Not purpose built, as they were all modified 'in-theatre' by the SAS to suit what they needed to do, as did the LRDG, and later, some of the Divisional Recce units, notably the 1st Airborne Recce at Arnhem.Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
SAS/LRDG in North Africa made use of a lot of captured German and Italian kit/weapons if it suited their purpose, but then again so did other units. Scrounging kit of anyone that had something you wanted, was a prime skill of most WW2 soldiers, as the logistics of supply of kit to the front line was anything but good (unless you were US forces).
e.g.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...bmwmotor-1.jpg
Most kit used by the WW2 SAS as said, was as issued to the Commando's (they were formed first) and later the Airborne troops, including the FS fighting knife, silenced STEN and other toys.
Where did you get that tidbit? My dad never once mentioned problems. He fought from the beginning to the end, Sicily, Italy, France and Germany, Holland and Belgium ...the whole thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Most British Army WW2 veterans I've spoken too (and that was many, as being a volunteer with several associations back in the late 80's and through the 90's incl 1st AB Recce Association and 43rd Recce Association) and my Dad also spoke of having to learn how to scrounge kit during his 12 month tour in Palestine in 46/47.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
SAS jeeps in North Africa - These were standard Willys MB jeeps, almost certainly the MB-BRT model, so marked on the data plate. The BRT is believed to mean “British Contract”. They were modified in North Africa by local workshops. The machine guns were usually the Vickers Gas Operated (G.O.), often called the Vickers “K Gun”. Light, fast firing, drum magazine, .303” and available as the RAF / Desert Air Force considered them to be obsolescent. These Vickers G.O. are often confused with stripped down Lewis Guns by authors and researchers. M2 Browning .50 caliber aircraft MGs were also used.
Willys-Overland MB jeeps were those supplied to other countries mainly. The Ford GPW vehicles tended to be issued to the U.S.Army in 1942. I have owned many ex-military jeeps (MB, MB-BRT, WLU-440 M-PERS-1, GPW, GPA, M38CDN and M38A1 CDN2) and have driven many of the prototypes and experimental models (BRC, GP, GP 4-wheel steer, half-track and TUG and the GP Budd bodied prototype serial number GP-2.)
The SAS modifications to their jeeps in North Africa mainly consisted of adding another spare wheel (many sharp rocks in areas of the North African deserts), adding Jerricans , removing windshield, rear seat, bows and top, and several radiator gille bars (to improve air flow and lighten the weight - not too many trees to bump into out there). They also added an overflow tank hooked up to the radiator. This latter device conserved water as it collected steam wanting to escape the radiator, condensed it and the water was sucked back into the radiator when it cooled down. These were common on the Canadian built CMP trucks in North Africa at the time.
Later in Europe the SAS modified jeeps (MB, MB-BRT, GPW, WLU-440 M-PERS-1) even more. They added armoured shields for the radiator and front crew. Self-sealing fuel tanks were added. Sometimes a rear armour plate was added. Rear facing machine guns and often a Bren Gun for the driver (mounted on a post) as well.
At least one jeep was also equipped with a fixed machine gun on each front fender, operated by the driver. This created a vehicle that all of us have wished we had when other crazy drivers cut us off on the road - fighter plane style guns and all the driver had to do is point the vehicle and press a button! James Bond’s “Q” simply put the guns out of sight in the Aston-Martin, but the concept was the same. This same jeep also mounted a U.S. Bazooka at head level between the driver and front passenger, which could be classed as “Offensive Driving”!
Sub-machine guns and M1 Carbines as well as Colt .45 1911/1911A1 pistols were carried and later, in 1944-45 onwards, the Canadian made Inglis No.2 Mk.I* pistol (Browning High Power / Grand Puissance Model 1935 9mm) which was John Browning’s much improved and simplified design over his venerable 1911, finished off after his death by an FN engineer named Saive. One can argue about the merits of .45” vs. 9mm of course.
The SAS definitely had some No.4 (T) sniper rifles in use in North West Europe (what Americans called ETO). A photograph recently turned up showing some SAS (Belgian 5 SAS Company?) troopers cleaning a No.4 (T) and a pair of Vickers G.O. Guns in the twin gun SAS jeep mount. Sniper rifles were little used in North Africa. No one carried the No.15 Mk.I wooden chest into battle as it was simply a storage and shipping crate.
“The Fairbairn-Sykes Fighting Knife”, aka “the F-S Fighting Knife”, was common issue for British raiding units by 1942. The model shown on the left hip of the jeep driver is the knurled grip straight guard version (now called the second pattern by collectors). I have several including my father’s issue one that is the same, though named to him on the blade by Wilkinson’s when he was attached to No.4 Commando in 1943. They are a very effective killing knife.
[/COLOR]The SAS gets the press because they still exist, but LRDG and Popski's Private Army and the various SOE and navy and commando type small unit groups are largely forgotten.
A number of the "Wel" Group items were developed for these organizations and saw extremely limited use.
There have been a number of excellent books published in the last 15 years, including several about the Frythe at Welwyn,
Look up The Department of Miscellaneous Weapons Development.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1985
Member "mudgee" emailed me the following pics of the piece being discussed in this thread and asked me to post them on his behalf.
He's asking other members to validate the authenticity of this piece which he's located at a gun show.
Time is of the essence for him, so a quick reply would be appreciated by him. :cheers:
Regards,
Doug
I very much doubt it............
I would have thought that any clandestine unit would be unlikely to mark their weapons with their units initials in case they were lost/captured on a mission.
You cannot help feeling that if this was genuine it would have been documented after 73 years...
If, and it's a big IF it's a genuine locally modified in the field No.5 by the Regiment, it certainly wasn't during WW2....for obvious reasons.
If genuine, likely during Malaya ops in the 1950's perhaps, but, still not convinced.
The "SERIAL NUMBER" label has a very 70's look, reminds me of the SUIT sight label,
I can't pretend to know much about oddball No5's but it just screams out 'Lash up' to me. Surely, even small scale but approved mods would have been marked cleanly, probably with a pantograph, not stamped with individual letter stamps like this?
And they added 'SAS' just in case you needed telling.......but were so professional they couldn't get all three letters in a straight line? Or am I mis-seeing it?
It also seems odd that they couldn't find a forend to butcher that hadn't already had an 'Ishy' screw through it.
It looks to me like someone got creative with a sporterized No5 & an old I/R sight they had lying about.
And if it were just to be a genuine locally extemporized unofficial one-off set up, unless someone kept photographs &/or other documentation to confirm it, there is no way of ever proving it, so it probably comes down to whether you want to believe it is what it claims to be or not!
Just MHO.
I agree that the No. 5 Mk. I modified as shown is likely a "Bubba" creation.
Of which the Australian troops excelled through both wars in fact you did not even have to be the enemy to be scrounged off........Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Also undated pic of British soldiers training with the FS knife it does not say if they were Commandos or SAS
I guess Lee Enfield over the passage of time that allot of the groups were incorporated into the system as the training of individuals encompassed skills of other trades that way they have an all in one combatant specialist.
If you look at the SAS now they just about do it all the US has the SEALS even the latter are broken up in the smaller groups with even more specialized skills set I think it is the DVGRU it would probably get down to the good old bean counters as why have 5-6 teams when you can have just 1 or 2 just incorporate a bigger spread of specialized training.
The action appears to be dated 1946 so it probably wasn't issued during ww2.
Noticed the caliber stamped on the body.
A highly speculative item.
The brutalised No 5. Nobody in their right mind would fire that more than once, the knife edge supposed to be the butt will see to that. The recoil will definitely bend the dodgy removable stock. Getting your cheek to use the sight close t the stock invites stitches to your cheek. Etc, etc. The SAS aren't stupid.
Comparing the period from the disbandment of the SAS to the reforming will probably date that monstrosity to when the SAS didn't exist.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by CINDERS
My Dad was very complimentary about the Aussies in this respect, said they were fine teachers in this......err, soldiery art.... :beerchug:
His RE unit were billeted with an Aussie unit in the Middle East at some point, and he came back from that tour with a prized Aussie issue BD blouse and trousers, no doubt putting his new found skills to good use. It became his 'best walking out' BD as he said the wool on the Aussie BD was much nicer quality than normal British issue.:thup:
The more I look at it, the worse it gets. This is Sub Bubba work. Why the apparent sleeve on the Butt Socket when a perfectly usable original thread could have been used? The shortening of the barrel. You would have removed the Flash Hider assembly, shortened the barrel and then reinstalled it. But no this has had its Flash Hider removed from the Bayonet Lug/Sight and then what looks like a dummy Flash Hider fixed by an internal thread into the barrel.
Just thinking of that scoped weather beaten example just visible in the left of frame first pic.
Stall owner "Oh yes that one, well would you believe that was the very rifle that Carlos Hathcock crawled for 3 days getting into a firing position then 2 days crawling out after killing that General its a POA sale cash only if you please."
Just move on if you have not already the whole thing is a bit of a joke the bottom wood left side near the socket is shot anyway, who knows what else is wrong when you open it up, imagine firing it two handed with the butt stock removed
One suspects the Great Man would have approved had he known. He was heartily sick of "by the book" generals and their timid ways; one reason he embraced Wingate with such enthusiasm. I don't know if he ever quoted George III's comment about General Wolfe, but he might have: "Mad is he? [ie: rabid] Then I wish he would bite some of my other generals!"Quote:
Originally Posted by mrclark303
Nothing more need be said about that starship trooper rifle except that the scope probably has about an inch of eye relief.
I look forward to the range report; probably the prone position would give the best results.
Just had the chance to apprise the "Special Army Soldier take down No5 Sniper rifle".
Well ... NO, not on any planet is this lash up anything but a figment of someone's imagination. In my opinion...
As mentioned, the recoil would be horrible on the shoulder. You wouldn't fire it more than once!
As far as the rifles on the table in the pic go, I'd be more interested in the Swedish Mauser next to the "unorthodox" Enfield. M96 long rifle. No threaded section on the muzzle. Blued, turned down bolt. There's a chance it could be a Swedish sniper with the scope removed. I wonder if the bottom half of the mounting bracket is on the left receiver wall?
Well guys I have kept quiet long enough and my tongue can't take any more biting :lol:
This whole thread has drifted way off course.
As someone who knew several of the "Originals" personally, ie Reg Seekings/Pat Riley/Jimmie Storrie, these were men who served directly under Lt Jock Lewes and David Stirling. I am also a close family friend of the Lewes family so what I am going to deliver below is all fact, which I have documented in the past.
The facts I am about to impart hopefully will all rectify some of what has been injected into this thread, which is pure guess work. It will cover most of what has been said to.
I am going to discount the No 5 rifle because that is absolute fiction, and best restored to its former glory.
The unit and its "real" leader Jock Lewes, who was a very talented individual and very underestimated in many badly written SAS books, was way ahead of his time.
A letter which is about to be presented to The National Army Museum on the 17/3/2018 is a hand written letter from David Stirling to Jocks father after his death on the 31/12/1941 where he was killed by a Messerschmit 110 round after a raid, states categorically "Jock can call himself more the founder of the SAS than I".
Stirling harassed the top brass, whilst Jock got on with the day to day ops/training.
At NO time did L Detachment as it became to be known, (to make the Germans think there was a bigger Special Forces Brigade) use any made up "covert" weapons such as the Welrod etc. These came in later in WW2 and used by SOE, who did become latterly part of the Special Force Group.
I can confirm that Jock Lewes who was an inventor, but an excellent planner and soldier, did have several inventions he had to tackle quickly and off the cuff.
The LEWES bomb was designed to stick to the aircraft they had to attack on remote airfields, to slow down or stop the onslaught, not only on mainland Libya, but also Malta and the shipping lanes at the time, providing essential supplies.
It was made up of Plastic explosive 808, Iron Filings, Thermite and diesel oil, to keep the explosive burning so to transform it into an incendiary devise as well. The time pencil fuse completed its function. Once stuck to an aircraft it didn't come off. The previous devices were embedded in bean tins and the like and wholly inadequate, as they often slid off the airframe.
With this setup, they could simply drive up or attack on foot and stick these on to each aircraft at the right spot to render the airframe useless for any future use "they were buggers to get off in a hurry if discovered".
Now onto the Parachutes and the story revolving around them and the next design from Jock Lewes.
I had the great privilege to know as a close friend, as he lived next door to my son who was also in 2 PARA at the time in Colchester, one, Lt John Wood, Parachute Regiment (retired) WW2.
He ordered and was waiting for 66 parachutes that were being sent out to India ( from 1 PTS RAF Ringwood, now Manchester Airport), as John was tasked with training the Indians in Parachuting and his task was to setup the first Parachute Battalions out there.
The aircraft trasporting these parachutes, stopped to refuel at Cairo airfield in Egypt. The plane went faulty and the parachutes were laying on the tarmac waiting a new plane.
Whilst there Jock was with others of L Detachment, "acquiring" stores and saw these chutes and thought what a great way to train his men, to deliver attacks from above!!
He simply stole the lot. They ended up back at JALO Oasis where they based themselves. The training then began using Albemarle Aircraft and any others the RAF would allow them to use to achieve this. Firstly they had to complete ground training, and this was done by jumping off the backs of Ford Canadian 1 ton trucks going between 30 and 40 miles per hour. In this way they could achieve the right postions as they hit the deck, in forward and reverse rolls and side left and right landings. There were casualties, but these were tough young men at the highest fitness, and only the wimps got injured said Reg Seekings once when I asked him :lol: "We soon got rid of them"
Anyway, the first jumps from varied aircraft, were where the chute on a static line would hopefully pull the chute from its bag, after the D ring was attached to a wire strung inside the aircraft. Don't forget these were early days of Military parachuting.
The first two "volunteers" died as their D rings split and opened on the G force exerted on them, and their chutes failed to open. There was no reserve, so Jock deemed it a useless loss of life of two fine men.
Jock made up a new D Ring, and before anybody else tried it, he made sure it was he, (not David Stirling that many books say it was him that did this) that tried the new rings out himself and jumped to safety. Pat Riley told me this story and rewrote history, because he says, he knows it was Jock, because I was number two, and had it failed there was no way I was jumping;)
Yes there is much writtne about Jocks first parachuting operation, but don't forget, with hindsight now, it was high winds and sand storms and noone knew a chute would not operate successfully in any winds higher than 14 mph. Out of 66 men that jumped on the operation 33 were lost/killed or captured. A sad night for Jock and all he had achieved.
This made him even more determined, and brought in the Selection of SF troops as we know it today, and many of the things he developed like the 30 mile tab/Eating and drinking drills/Navigation by stars/Training all off enemies weapons and lots more some still used today in selection and onward within the Special Air Service.
Sorry if I have gone off on one here, but it needed saying and hopefully you will realise, these fine fine men, only used what was issued, they never modified anything. Yes they cobbled together two LMGs or made brackets to hold them up, but NEVER converted anything other than what they were issued with.
The Willys Jeeps and Chevvy trucks never came into the SAS Brigade until the 21/9/1942. nearly a year after the units formation. They were ALWAYS ferried and picked up by the Long Range Desert Group (LRDG).
Hope this clears up some of the myths expelled, and I didn't want to really say any of the above, as I have written enough about it so many times. I was about to go out to Libya with the Lewes family, two weeks after the Benghazi Military Cemetery was descimated after Ghaddafis downfall, to recover Jocks body and have him buried there with full Military honours. Jimmie Storrie buried him hurriedly in the desert when he was killed in 1941, and it was only right and proper one of our national Heroes should be honoured in this way.
We were disuaded to do this by the FCO as it was to dangerous to accomplish, and still is, but we will get there one day!!
WHO DARES WINS
As ever Gil, your insight is always warmly welcomed and makes for a fascinating read.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
If one day its possible to recover Jocks remains (let us all hope it will be), then it's one funeral/internment I would be honoured to attend and pay my respects, if possible.
John,
Thanks for that.
There is another book I could write on the Originals and the detailed information both John Lewes, Jocks nephew and I hold, but it is something we will be looking at in the future.
It was disaapointing that the last BBC series, left much details they were provided on the cutting room floor, so they won't get any future film rights!!
It is certainly our intention to bury Jock after all the work that has gone into pinpointing his location from Aerial Photography and Jimmie Storries testimony on the burial site when I interviewed him several years ago.
The desert is a mean beast, so we know not what will be left, but what remains will be buried correctly as per my GRAVEWATCH policy which I setup a few years ago appertaining to Parachute Regiment soldiers.
The UK Coroner will not allow his remains to be brought back to the UK as he was killed in WW2 and his fate is buried with those that hold how he actually died if that makes sense, which is sad, but a reality of policies in place in countries faced with the same issues, I'm afraid.
Thank you also for illuminating when the SAS got its jeeps. So many people seem to be under the misapprehension that the SAS and LRDG were scooting along in the desert in MB/GPWs etc the whole desert war long but production of the first slat grills only started in November/December '41 and switched to stamped grills in February and March '42. I have not seen any pictures of the early slat grills in action there and plus if you add in shipping time jeeps really came to the war in North Africa relatively late by Commonwealth standards. (Ignoring the tardy Americans who came so late they had jeeps from the beginning)
Sorry if I'm out of order Gil, but I think that should read Kabrit Camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Mike,
Absolutely right Kabrit was where they did most of the ground training but Jalo Oasis was where they based themselves on the 5th December 41. Jock was killed on the 31st.
I was led to believe all the jumps were taken from RAF Heliopolis?
Mike,
RAF Heliopolis was where the Bristol Bombays were based that they used to jump from in August 1941, and where much of the jump towers and other stuff was placed. Jumping from Fords not Bedfords as mentioned in many books also, was done anywhere, where there was downtime and steered by Jock around Kabrit.
It was the fateful training jump that killed Ken Warburton and Joseph Duffy, where many books write that David Stirling led his men first through the door once the static line clip had been fixed.
There is very little mentioned about who designed that replacement clip and also who went through the door first to test his design...............it was Jock Lewes, not Stirling fact!
I don't wish to knock Stirlings good name here, but the facts come from Pat Riley who was a copper in my Force after the war, and what he wrote down, he was behind Jock, which was never disputed by the surviving lads who were also on that training jump. Didn't want to take the thread off the theme, so I apologise not putting more detail down.
One thing to remember, Stirling rarely mentioned Jock after his death and I think he took much credit for stuff Jock did not he!!
All very interesting Gil. I agree Jock Lewes is much left out of the story of the SAS, probably due his early demise and the importance given to all the later desert ops, and the impact that Blair Mayne made. One of the other officers that made a huge impact on the SAS success story was Bill Fraser, he also is rarely mentioned.
My late dads brother (also dec) was a member of the Greek Sacred Sqn, They were Greek Egyptians and two of the three brothers served, one in the RAF and he was originally in the Greek Navy as a sub mariner then volunteered for the "Ieros Loxos" so its all of interest to me.
Sorry to digress from the original conversation.
Here are some of the images we have loaned to reliable book writers in the past and newspapers. These are with the Lewes family in the main, all recovered from Jocks possessions on his training:
Graham Rose and Jimmie Storrie..............JALO Oasis 1941 didnt know the photo was being taken! This image will confirm that the weapons they used were issued only.
Mike,
Coming back to the thrust of this thread, one can see the Sacred Sqn on the greek islands and the weapons they had cobbled together.
Schmeiser/Thompson/Carbine and the old trusted horse the bren. Nice photo
Heavy Bren firepower. Wonder who carried the magazines?
Those boys are certainly tooled up for Bear Gil, that's a lot of firepower!Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Alledgedly a pre ambush photo, I think its posed personally, you certainly don't get time or the impulse to take photos just before an ambush in real life!!!!!:runaway:
Maybe not..... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
That looks very much like a Colt New Service revolver in his hands, which was a WW1 British issue, but in .455 Webley calibre.....whereas the US and Canadian post WW1 issue Colt New Service revolvers were usually in .45ACP calibre, and I would think .45ACP ammo supply (same as the Thompson) was more readily available than old .455 Webley, so I suspect that Colt may not have been a WW1 era British issue and was thus acquired by 'other' means....???
Yes some sleeping General probably :lol:
Probably wasn't even sleeping............ :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Some of the wartime kit thieving stories I heard from some of the 43rd Recce and 1st Airborne Recce veterans I knew back in the 1990's were most interesting.
The predominately West Country boys of 43rd Recce were very proud of the fact that they finished the war with a significantly greater number of Jeeps than they went over to Normandy with 9 months earlier :D
It's not a Colt.Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam
Issued Canadian New Service revolvers were a mix of .455 and .45 "Long" Colt, not .45acp. This is true both for military and rnwmp/rcmp police purchased New Service revolvers.
The illustrated revolver is actually a Smith & Wesson, either a 455 Second Model Hand Ejector or (less likely) 45acp M.1917
The give away should be that the .455 barrel is 6-1/2" while the .45acp barrel is 5-1/2"
The gun in this photo looks out of proportion so i'm not 100% committed to either model.
And an M1 carbine closest to the wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Boyd
Lee Enfield,
I should have confirmed it was a S&W earlier, my apologies, as thats what it was. Jimmie reckons it was issued to him, just found my notes from when I interviewed him, and it stayed with him throughout, it was issued, which no doubt starts another trail of weapons issued to men in the early days.