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In the not too distant future I shall be starting to load for a 6.5x55 M94 Swedish Cavalry carbine. I already have some N160, and this seems to be a recommended powder for this cartridge. However, would I be better off using something a little faster, bearing in mind the short barrel of the carbine? At least initially, I'll be using 139/140grn bullets, should I also switch to a lighter bullet?
I would think if the carbine had the original barrel it would be throated for the older, heavier bullets. Meaning you'd want to use heavier bullets as well, to ensure minimal jump and good sight matching.
If you are just looking for accuracy , not max velocity , the powder burn rate does not make that much difference and has nothing to do with accuracy . In some carbines my best load is with I-4350 . You would want to use a bullet that shoots best in YOUR gun . I have very accurate loads for M-94's using a 100 fp , 107 smk , and also to standard 140 range bt or fb bullets . The 160 round nose is the worst [ but not that bad ] . No US type bullet will shoot to the sights , [the military bullets are made different ] , plus after 100 years of wood settling the zero change really change . The throat length really does not matter , I have load that are way of the lands and they shoot fine .
Using a older Hornady manual I started with a 140 grs Interlock with a initial charge of 28 grs of IMR-3031. Working my way up I found great groups at 200 yards with a charge of 32 grs, still way below max as shown in the manual. Once I got a tight cloverleaf I called it a day, this was with Norma surplus practice rounds that I pulled the little copper projectile and replaced the powder with 3031.
I'd love to be able to get hold of some of the Hornady 160grn RN bullets, but they are now discontinued, I think, so that would make them hard to get hold of over here unless I drop lucky and find someone with old stock. The most common bullets will probably be SMK or PPU.
Our little gallery rounds? That must have been a tribulation, those can't weigh 20 grains...Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.e moose
How ? I just pull them out with pliers .
On my 96/38 I use N150 with good results.
Shorter barrel as the long M96, I think it just works fine.
I’m also thinking of trying the N140 or the Lovex S060-2.
"However, would I be better off using something a little faster, bearing in mind the short barrel of the carbine."
In general, NO. It's not a matter of barrel length, it's the maximum chamber pressure that sets the limit.
I know someone who ruined his Swedish Mauser by using a fast powder and a light bullet. The 6.5x55 case has a neck that is heavily "bottled" in comparison with, say, a .308 WIN. The expanding gas is correspondingly heavily "throttled" by the smaller cross-section of the neck and bore. A fast powder in that large space will have a relatively low filling factor (compared with .308 WIN) and generate a very high pressure before the bullet gets moving and the peak pressure is relieved by the bullet moving down the barrel.
It is surely not a good idea to try to outsmart Vihtavuori, who probably know more about loading the Swedish Mauser than the rest of us put together. And the fastest powder in their published data is N140, when using 123gn or lighter bullets.
Personally, I would prefer a bit of flame coming out of the muzzle to a bulged barrel. I have found, over years, that the loads in the Vihtavouri book produce reliable results that I cannot beat with my own experimentation.
Stick to N150 (the most flexible) or N160 (for really heavy bullets).
I wasn't going to get into it but since Patrick has, be careful loading for the 6.5x55 as you can damage rifles as he's pointed out. I have memory of an experienced reloader changing the angle of his bolt face by loading hot for his 6.5 swede...
In my estimation, anyone who wants to have a "hot" load for a milsurp has disqualified himself by showing an irresponsible attitude.
I'm not after a "hot" load Pat. I was just thinking along the lines of using maybe N150 instead of N160 to try and avoid blowing half the powder out of the muzzle. I don't even hot-rod my P14 hunting rounds, I'm not about to risk ruining the Swede.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Chadwick
Perhaps I've over emphasised the load, he loaded to the maximum but I doubt hotter than the spec called for. I still would load what factory calls for.Quote:
Originally Posted by browningautorifle
That is, in fact, the only cartridge I did not test much with.
N140 is the fastest powder accepted, with light bullets at that.
With N150, my 140grs fmjbt bullets behave very well.
Well, I got the Swede, but unfortunately, I missed out on the carbine. I was outbid on a sealed bid auction by a paltry £3 (It was a nice one too. That prompted some bad language, I can tell you!!).
Instead, I picked up a Carl Gustav M38, done on a 1908 M96 receiver.
I managed to get it to the range last week to try out with some N160 and H414 reloads and I put up some groups that showed promise.
Now, I have to admit that indoor lighting, my eyes and open sights are not a good mix and the best I managed was a bit over a 3", 5 shot group. I'm hoping I can improve on that on an outdoor range.
To be continued.
I'm handloading for my Carl Gustav M96 (anno 1901). I obtain good accuracy with N 160 / 44.0 behind 140 g bullets (SMK, Hornady) and 139 Lapua (my rifle prefers 140 to 120 g).
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../MDrix24-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../Jkv24Lh-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../LY3bcZi-1.jpg
Good news. I managed to get to the range again last week, and this time I took along some loads utilising 140grn Sierra Match Kings and 144grn Lapua Scenar bullets. I opted for the load which had given best accuracy with the cheap PPU bullets I used on my first outing, which was 44grn N160, and seated the bullets as far out as I was happy with (seated about half a calibre deep).
Because of the longer COAL, pressure was a little low in these and they produced smoke streaked cases, but I was very pleased with the accuracy this time out.
My next batch will be either a slightly heavier charge, or I'll seat the bullets a tad deeper to see if I can boost the pressure a little bit, but safe to say, "it's all looking very promising".
Congratulations! Great cartridge! Very advanced for a first (or maybe second) generation smokeless powder design.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry mac
And quite responsive and friendly.
Don't forget H380 and H4831.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry mac
Negative. Burn rate is based on sectional density of bullet (heavier bullet takes slower powder) and expansion ratio of interior of cartridge and bore (bigger diameter bores require a fast powder to keep up with the expanding volume). I tend to shoot heavy bullets like the 156/160 grain round nose types. Which is why I favor slower powders.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry mac
Not a bad place to start for getting used to the round. The initial loading used a 160 grain bullet (just above 10 grams in metric) with a muzzle velocity of 2150 (give or take) in the short barreled carbine.Quote:
Originally Posted by harry mac
The 139 grain (9 gram) bullet was introduced in about 1941 and that loading was mainly used in the M38 (in between length) rifle.
I find a slightly less than maximum load of H4831 with the 160 grain Hornady bullet produces just over the advertised muzzle velocity of the M94 cartridge. In my rifle, of course. The rifle is sporterized but the barrel is stock. I find loading data in the Lyman #50 book. I'm also doing some preliminary research with H380, but have no conclusions as yet.
Still, burning rate is determined by bullet weight (sectional density) and expansion ratio, not barrel length.