Parkerizing on a No4?

So I was looking for a butchered sporter to convert back to military glory, but I've got a line on a 1943 Longbranch No4 MkI* for a very good price... A phenomenal price considering the prices I'm starting to see. Especially considering it has the correct micrometer sight that I've paid nearly $100 a piece to replace on my last two rifles. Visually it looks very good, but I'll probably still have it restocked with a new birch set I have in my closet at home. But on to my question...

Looking at the photos it looks like it's been parkerized. The coloring is very similar to my 1903a3. Anyway, I'm wondering if this was normal as I've never seen it. It won't dissuade me from the rifle, but I am curious.

Amadeus: Is it actually greenish? If it's more of a light grey I believe there have been threads where this has been attributed to rework in Belgium? One was for sale up here, recently, and it was a striking light grey park.

Ridolpho

No, not green... It looks more like grey. I'd just never seen it.

A pic would be priceless...whether it's a teflon or parkerizing, we can't see it from here.

IMG_0233_zpssojzsied.jpg Photo by amadeus7676 | Photobucket

Never seen a LE with that finish; doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Looks like guncote or parkerise, not original to the rifle.

I agree, looks like a very light park (possibly camera flash has made it appear lighter) interested to see some more pics of that LB....

Outside with a pic would be good possibly in a shady area given the flash affect does not represent the true colour of the piece in question.

Agreed about the picture quality. We need a better pic. Looks like a grey park done commercially by John Q Public.

No4 MkII 3/50:

https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-1.jpg
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo...standard-2.jpg

Always looked like park to me?

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Originally Posted by MasterChief

Always looked like park to me?

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I agree MC...they were done like that late.

My late Mk II has very black suncorite which I believe was done on top of a parkerized surface. I know it's original as it was in a paper wrapper prior to my purchase of it. I believe I've seen comments on this forum that late LB's had a parkerized finish (ie without paint)? I have seen a parkerized finish on WW2 built/refurbed Australian rifles that is very light green (like many 03A3's). Getting a handle on all the possible "genuine" new built/ FTR'd metal finishes is challenging.

Ridolpho

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Originally Posted by Ridolpho

I believe I've seen comments on this forum that late LB's had a parkerized finish (ie without paint)?

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I don't think we used paint here...

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Originally Posted by browningautorifle

I don't think we used paint here...

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BAR: No, I believe the earlier ones (LB) were originally "blued".

Ridolpho

Agreed: I think Brian mentioned recently that post war LB used a parked finish (not painted on top), whereas the original factory finish was blued.........

The finish on the OP's photograph looks so light it almost looks like it has been bead blasted but not parked afterwards. As suggested, perhaps an effect of the light?

Back about 15 or so years ago, Brian had a batch of Long Branch No4's that came back from Greece.

If memory serves, he said that Long Branch rifles were factory blued up until about 1951 when they switch to parkerizing. Any earlier rifles that went through a rebuild were parked after 1951.

If the rifle had ever been cosmolined, that would account for the green tint. I seem to remember a few of the parked Greek rifles being greenish.

Zinc Parkerizing, the type used during WW2 and immediately after, on its own ranged from light slate gray to almost black, depending on the concentration of the bath. Any green tint came from the cosmoline dip that all American arms subject to overseas shipment received. Not sure about Canadian weapons.

It seems that the rifles that had the lighter gray parkerizing came out more noticeably green from the cosmoline than rifles that were darker.

I had the luxury of picking out a pristine blued 1949 LB from the hundreds that he had at the time.
https://www.milsurps.com/images/impo.../5hi0ybK-1.jpg

Long Branch used a dark grey parkerizing, almost black at times. A well known commercial phosphate finish. Can't say exactly when it was introduced, but certainly by the 1950s. The colour varies according to the chemistry of the bath and the metal being coated. When the bath gets out of whack the crystalline deposit that comprises the coating begins to show various defects. The major concern would logically have been the durability of the coating rather than the colour.

The bluish finish used during WWII and after was something else.

RCEME Parkerized weapons during FTR starting in the mid/late 1950's onwards but it isn't that color. It's a dark grey manganese phosphate that was used and is a very nice finish.

That Mk.2 looks unfinished without baked Suncorite 259 paint on the phosphate.

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:58 PM ----------

CAL switched to manganese phosphate in the 93L serial range. That would be at some point in mid to late 1950 if memory serves. Inglis pistols, Stens and Brens also sport the very nice dark grey Parkerized finish so it was being applied to other factory new weapons during WWII. I wouldn't be surprised that the chemicals were the same as used on many U.S. weapons. Wow, that would be a study in itself learning who produced and supplied the chemicals!

I wish I had 'em all back Buck!! The L42's too!!! I thought I was going to die with them. It's hard to believe the good old days have come and gone.

The green tinted parkerizing that USGI collectors go GaGa over is fairly easy to reproduce. The colour is caused by a reaction between the phosphate finish and a chromic acid rinse.

http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/721283.pdf

A chromic acid rinse solution is/was used after zinc or manganese phosphate (Parkerizing) to improve corrosion resistance.

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Originally Posted by Brian Dick

Wow, that would be a study in itself learning who produced and supplied the chemicals!

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Parker-Amchem, "Parco Lubrite 2" About $800 a carboy last time I asked.

I know they were one big supplier. Colt used their chemicals for sure. I'd guess they weren't the only one though but could be wrong.

My 1950 LB for comparison.

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/24ixNWpl.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/tUHHqX3l.jpg[/IMG]

Turn your sling over before the hooks mar up that lovely walnut stock.

That's zinc based Parkerizing. Comes out in shades of grey depending on the metal it goes on. Manganese based Parkerizing comes out black.
Parkerizing is actually an American brand name. It's the same process as black phosphating put on Longbranch No. 4's and C1A1's but uses different chemicals. No grey Parkerized No. 4's on the Rifles I had on my MIU 30 some years ago. All of 'em were black. So were the No. 7's.
There is no such thing as green Parkerizing. The green tinge comes from long term storage in Cosmoline(that's also a brand name).

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Originally Posted by Sunray

Comes out in shades of grey depending on the metal it goes on.

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We found that by adding consumable steel to the bath we could make it blacker...like steel wool. It would get eaten and the bath would produce black park on a Canadian weapon...

In my experience, zinc phosphate on No.4 bodies comes out a very light grey because of the metal composition. You can always see the dark spots where the hardening is for the locking lug recesses. If that's a factory original 1950, LB which I think it is, I'd suggest it's just the photo lighting making it look too light. I've always told folks that zinc is light grey and manganese dark grey. It all depends on the composition of the metal but there's really no such thing as black phosphate unless it's treated with a dye or other post phosphate process. I have never seen a truly black color phosphate on a LB No.4. I'd have to consider it more of a dark grey but maybe that's just me. There are other variables like the strength of the bath which gets steadily weaker with use making the finish noticeably lighter.

Jim, that's a common practice, especially where the water being used is distilled and devoid of iron content. Brownells actually sell iron powder for mixing in but a wad of clean steel wool will do the trick. My well water out here is very high in iron content and that's what I've used for 23 years making some really nice phosphate finishes, both zinc and manganese. Sometimes I feel bad painting and baking Suncorite on because it looks so good!